Author Topic: Very rare coat of arms found on grave, could be connected with freemasons  (Read 2424 times)

Offline RTTY

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I've found very rare coat of arms on one really big grave but that grave doesn't have commemorative plaque so I don't know who is buried there. Grave is no more that 50 years old I think. This is how it looks.



Link to full image: https://i.imgur.com/nWSnWng.jpeg

And on marble slab there is coat of arms with these symbols:

1) Shield with sun, moon, and I think eagle
2) Plant that surrounds it, not quite good to identify it
3) Medieval knight helmet with crown on it
4) Above helmet is two header phoenix I think, or maybe some dragon/hydra because it seems it has long tongue sticking out (not quite sure)
5) At the bottom is written: "Proxima soli" which translated from the latin means "nearest to the sun" that is my indication that someone important from freemasons could be buried there

Does any of you who has more knowledge and experience with these symbols help me or give some guidelines to resolve the mystery?

Thank you very much everyone.

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Very rare coat of arms found on grave, could be connected with freemasons
« Reply #1 on: Monday 18 July 22 15:03 BST (UK) »
Hello RTTY,
There is a lot going on here, so I will break it down into bits. 

Firstly, it is not rare. A coat of arms in the UK is granted to one individual at a time. So these arms are no more rare than my own. 

Where was the picture taken? That might give a clue to who owned the arms. 

I agree with sun and crescent and eagle displayed. 

It is not a plant, it is mantling. A short, curtain-like affair that extended from the top of the helmet to just below the shoulders. It was designed to keep the sun off the helmet and shoulders. Many of the original crusaders died by cooking inside their armour. The mantling should not be confused with a mantle (cloak). The cloak fastened at the chest (not neck) and performed the same function as the mantling. Originally, both were white on both sides. It looks the way it does because it is trying to look as if it has been torn and slayed in the heat of battle. 

It is a "tilting helm" used for jousting. The rider would tilt his head forward, so he could see out of the eye slits. Just before impact, he tilts his head back to stop the opponent's lance blinding, or killing him. 

The crown is called an "ancient crown" and has no special significance. It forms part of what is called the crest. That is to say, the crown and the eagle are part of the same thing. 

The eagle, is single headed. It is holding a snake in its beak. The snake's head is to the left, and the body forms the number 6, curls back on itself and the tail looks like an up tick. 

The motto "Proxima soli" - this is something of a mystery. I suspect a mistranslation somewhere along the line. Soli when put with Proxima is implying some proximity to the sun. Whereas "Soli" on its own, translates as soil or earth. Possibly giving a transliteration of "Stay Grounded". 

All Masonic tombs that I have seen, display the square, the compasses, the all seeing eye, a chequerboard, or a sun in splendour - or some combination of one or more of these elements. There is nothing in this representation that would indicate masonic to me.

If it were me, I would start with the nearest town or village to the graveyard. Find out who were the prominent people living there and see if there had been any endowments to the local church. If a man is going to have an impressive stone, he usually gets buried in his local churchyard rather than miles away. 

Regards 

Chas
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Offline Flattybasher9

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Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Very rare coat of arms found on grave, could be connected with freemasons
« Reply #3 on: Monday 18 July 22 15:52 BST (UK) »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Eagle_of_Este

Malky
 

Yes Malky, I saw that as well, but they don't say how they translate it. 

Regards 

Chas
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Offline Stanwix England

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Re: Very rare coat of arms found on grave, could be connected with freemasons
« Reply #4 on: Monday 18 July 22 17:11 BST (UK) »
Welcome to the Forum RTTY! It's great to have you here.

It would be great if you could let us know some details about the grave, that might help to work out what the crest means.

For example, do they have a connection to Italy and therefore the 'Order of the Eagle' could be a connection, that Flattybasher9 linked to?

I'm wondering if the person combined some symbols that were important to them in life, in order to make this crest?

Having a look around, the sun and moon part reminds me of the Plymouth coat of arms. Maybe the deceased had a connection to the city.

It's interesting that the motto of Plymouth seems to be 'Heaven's light our guide' which might feed in to the 'sun' connection in the motto here.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22293873@N08/16698871319

I see what you mean about the eagle being reminiscent of the one used on Free mason symbols, but that seems to be two headed in all the examples I see, and the one in the image only has one head.

;D Doing my best, but frequently wrong ;D
:-* My thanks to everyone who helps me, you are all marvellous :-*

Online Ruskie

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Re: Very rare coat of arms found on grave, could be connected with freemasons
« Reply #5 on: Monday 18 July 22 21:23 BST (UK) »
A couple of thoughts:

- Could you not enquire at the either church or cemetery office to ask who is buried in the plot? You would expect a record would exist especially if the grave is not very old.

- Presumably the stonemason would have worked from an image supplied by the family. The image obviously has some meaning, however it could be a mish mash or (mis)interpretation which may explain why it doesn’t seem to quite make sense.

- The lettering has not been executed very well.

 :)

Offline RTTY

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Re: Very rare coat of arms found on grave, could be connected with freemasons
« Reply #6 on: Monday 18 July 22 22:08 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much for all your answers.

I want to say to you that grave is on the cemetery of one very metropolitan big city. There are also many others cemeteries. But I can not find out who is buried down there if anyone actually is? All around are graves of people from 21, 20 century. So someone bough that big parcel, I can tell you that at least 3 people could be buried there. It is like big marble rectangle with another marble plate on it covering it with this symbol on it. Someone who is rich bought that or someone else did, it is for someone important that is for sure. We all try to analyze the symbols on it but I have never seen coat of arms exactly like this one before. That is the mystery.

Thank you Kiltpin for you detailed explanation, biggest reveal for me that it was actually eagle with snake.

I could ask the cemetery office if they have some papers but I think those informations are hidden. Maybe they could tell me that parcel belonged to "Someones Name..." But that doesn't tell me anything, I couldn't find and speak to that guy. I also don't know if someone is buried there. It may be coat of arms of some family.

Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Very rare coat of arms found on grave, could be connected with freemasons
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 19 July 22 20:12 BST (UK) »
4) Above helmet is two header phoenix I think, or maybe some dragon/hydra because it seems it has long tongue sticking out (not quite sure)
I would suggest the above is a Griffin.
Cheers
Guy
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Re: Very rare coat of arms found on grave, could be connected with freemasons
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 20 July 22 02:09 BST (UK) »
The cemetery may not tell you who owns the plot, but they will/should be able to tell you who is buried there. That won’t be a secret surely?

You are allowed to tell us which city this cemetery is in - saying it is a “big city” is a bit cryptic. You haven’t even told us which country.  ;D

Some families spend huge sums of money on plots, graves and monuments, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they were hugely wealthy or important. I would question why there is no identifying name plate - someone here may know.

It will be interesting to find out who is buried there.  :)