Author Topic: 1915 Liverpool RC burial record...but NO corresponding GRO Death Entry?!  (Read 150 times)

Offline PabloC

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 Hi all,

Posting in the hope that some assistance might be available in terms of the following;

My Great grandfather was one Luke Jordan (1889 -1962). His parents were John Jordan (c.1854-1904) and Mary Jane Clements (nee Martin 1856-1915), both of whom were from Newry, County Armagh and who came over to Liverpool in the mid 1880’s.

John Jordan’s parents were Luke and Ellen Jordan (nee McAleavy), again, of Newry, Co. Armagh. As of yet, I am unsure of their respective DOB/DOD.

John Jordan passed away in 1904 as stated above and was buried at Ford RC Cemetery (Sterrix Lane), Litherland in Liverpool in a public plot. However, on Mary Jane’s passing in 1915, she was buried on the 19th August in Plot 776 (Private), Section R, Ford RC Cemetery, Sterrix Lane, Ford,  Liverpool. Mary Jane had lived at 88 Stitt Steet in the Everton area of Liverpool for a number of years, showing up there on both the 1901 and 1911 census.

Upon the subsequent deaths of both my Great Grandfather Luke and Great grandmother Sarah Jordan in 1962 and 1967 respectively, both were interred in the same plot as Luke’s mother – Plot 776, Section R (Private), Ford Cemetery. So as far as I was aware, the three of them were buried together in the same plot.

However, here’s where things start to get strange…

Having been concentrating on this direct line of my tree for a week or so, focussing primarily on Luke and Ellen over in Ireland,  I noticed a hint within with Ancestry account relating to the Catholic burial of one Mr. Luke Jordan in 1915. On accessing the record, I see that this Luke Jordan was buried within the same private grave TWO DAYS prior to the burial of my Great, great grandmother on the 17th August 1915, with his place of residence stated as being…88 Stitt Street!

Strangely though whereas this record states that Luke was buried in the plot on the 17th August, there is no corresponding entry for Mary Jane two days later on the 19th within this record set (Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1985 (Ford Cemetery 1911-1915)) Furthermore, vice versa, on the burial record where Mary Jane is listed as having been buried on the 19th, there is no corresponding entry for Luke Jordan on the 17th August within the same record – see attached scan of entry for 17th Aug, again from the 1911-1915 record set!

Also, there appear to be a couple of separate records for the burials and on one of them contained within Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1985 (Ford Cemetery 1914-1915) on Ancestry, where Mary Jane is listed as buried on the 19th August 1915, on the previous page, there is an entry on the 17th August for an ‘Adult Jordan’, with the record stating that plot 776 is a ‘New Grave’

Even stranger still, I can find no record whatsoever within the death indexes for the death of a Luke Jordan in Liverpool in 1915 at all. How can someone be buried without a death certificate?

I would be really grateful for any assistance/thoughts people might having respect of this, as it is all rather confusing!!!!

Regards

Paul
Arnold - Liverpool
Bennett-Co. Down, Ireland
Clisham-Liverpool/Ireland
Cox - Shropshire/Flintshire
Cuddy - Liverpool/Ireland
Dunne - Co. Laois, Ireland
Glue -Sussex
Guest - Staffordshire
Hughes - Co.Laios, Ireland
Jordan - Co.Down, Ireland
Lancaster - Cumberland
Manion - Liverpool/Galway, Ireland
Pearson - Cumberland
Vallely - Co.Louth, Ireland

Offline LizzieW

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Re: 1915 Liverpool RC burial record...but NO corresponding GRO Death Entry?!
« Reply #1 on: Monday 08 August 22 20:34 BST (UK) »
It looks as though your g.grandfather got confused when registering the death and burial of his mother, or the person entering the details did Luke's name was put down instead of his mother.  A similar thing happened when my gran was baptised.  The parish register has her as a male, with her father's name!  It took me ages to find the record.

Offline liverpoolgenealogy

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Re: 1915 Liverpool RC burial record...but NO corresponding GRO Death Entry?!
« Reply #2 on: Monday 08 August 22 20:51 BST (UK) »
I agree with Lizzie. I think there is an error on behalf of whoever entered the names into the book, particularly as there is no death index reference for a death of Luke Jordan. It was a legal requirement (from the 1870s I think) to have a death certificate produced before the burial took place.

Offline PabloC

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Re: 1915 Liverpool RC burial record...but NO corresponding GRO Death Entry?!
« Reply #3 on: Monday 08 August 22 21:01 BST (UK) »
Hi Lizzie,

I think I know what's going on...

The record on the 17th August for an 'Adult Jordan' relates to the grave being prepared,and the Day/time of the funeral;

'New Grave, R776, Adult Jordan, Thursday 3pm'

whereas the 19th is the record of the actual funeral, where Mary Jane's name is included.

Similarly, within the record relating to the 17th, there are references to graves being opened, and also two further New Grave entries relating to an 'Adult Brannigan' and an Adult Carroll'

Also buried on Thurs 19th August 1915 was Patrick Brannigan and Annie Carroll.

The other record that is dated 17th August 1915 and relates to a Luke Jordan of 88 Stitt Street is the record of Luke paying for his mother's grave. Similarly, there are corresponding entries for Ellen Brannigan and Catherine Carroll paying for the graves of their respective relatives.

It seems that Ancestry has included the record set relating to the owner of the graves within the overarching Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1965 record set and hasn't referenced them correctly....
Arnold - Liverpool
Bennett-Co. Down, Ireland
Clisham-Liverpool/Ireland
Cox - Shropshire/Flintshire
Cuddy - Liverpool/Ireland
Dunne - Co. Laois, Ireland
Glue -Sussex
Guest - Staffordshire
Hughes - Co.Laios, Ireland
Jordan - Co.Down, Ireland
Lancaster - Cumberland
Manion - Liverpool/Galway, Ireland
Pearson - Cumberland
Vallely - Co.Louth, Ireland


Offline PabloC

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Re: 1915 Liverpool RC burial record...but NO corresponding GRO Death Entry?!
« Reply #4 on: Monday 08 August 22 21:03 BST (UK) »
I agree with Lizzie. I think there is an error on behalf of whoever entered the names into the book, particularly as there is no death index reference for a death of Luke Jordan. It was a legal requirement (from the 1870s I think) to have a death certificate produced before the burial took place.

That's what was confusing me, as I couldn't see someone being buried without one, but as I say in my last response, I think I've cracked it - mis-referenced record sets grouped together.
Arnold - Liverpool
Bennett-Co. Down, Ireland
Clisham-Liverpool/Ireland
Cox - Shropshire/Flintshire
Cuddy - Liverpool/Ireland
Dunne - Co. Laois, Ireland
Glue -Sussex
Guest - Staffordshire
Hughes - Co.Laios, Ireland
Jordan - Co.Down, Ireland
Lancaster - Cumberland
Manion - Liverpool/Galway, Ireland
Pearson - Cumberland
Vallely - Co.Louth, Ireland