Henry William White (1860s-1917)

[hammered27]

I am interested to see if anyone could help me with a block I have hit for several years.

The first record of Henry William White that I can find is his marriage to Ellen BRIANT in 1885 in Ringwood, Hampshire. He is a labourer and born 1860/61.

Henry W White and Ellen White are living in Ringwood in the 1891 census, with a niece, Mary White and a birth year of 1862/63 aged 5. 

In the 1901 census Henry White is living in Ringwood with Mary. Ellen White is living at a separate address in Ringwood as a servant.

Ellen White died in 1910 and Henry William White remarried to Edith Augusta WATERS (previously MORGAN) in 1911, both were widows. Both the marriage certificates to Ellen and Edith state Henry's father as William WHITE and a coal merchant.

In the 1911 census, Henry William White is living in Ringwood, with Edith and his step-son, Frederick. Born 1865/66. Both the 1911 census and his marriage certificate to Edith state that he is now a Fish Dealer. A baptism record in late 1913 states Henry William White and Edith Augusta White as the parents of William Robert White, in Stepney Green, London, born November 1911.

Henry W White dies in 1917 in Ringwood born 1863/1864. I have not been able to locate Edith, Frederick and William in the 1921 census but I know they moved to East London at some point.

I believe that Mary White, may be the Mary Kate White born 1885 in Ringwood and that her mother may be Sarah White born c.1865-1887 who may be Henry William White's sister.

Any help in finding out more information regarding Henry prior to his marriage to Ellen and his parents/siblings would be greatly appreciated.

[Neale1961]

Welcome to RootsChat

If you have the marriage certificates for Henry’s two marriages, what are the names of the witnesses?

Have you looked at this possibility?
William White (coal dealer) in the 1891 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/590335f7e9379091b1f62fec/william-white-1891-hampshire-ringwood-1841-?locale=en

This might be him again in the 1901 census (same street address, same wife born Dorset)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSFS-3FY


I have run out of time at the moment, but will follow up later, if nobody else has responded.

[Neale1961]

I suspect that William, the coal dealer, has put his age down on that 1891 census. This could be him in 1911.

1911 census  Ringwood
William White age 76, grandfather, widower , living on private means
In the house of Fred SAMWAY age 29 and wife Mary age 25

I think the wife Mary Samway might be the niece who is living with your Henry in 1891 and in 1901.

This would be her birth registration, and looks as if she is an illegitimate child.
WHITE, MARY  KATE                     -  no mother maiden name recorded
GRO Reference: 1885  S Quarter in RINGWOOD  Volume 02B  Page 665

[Neale1961]

I wonder if this could be William, who is the coal dealer in 1891, and faggot carter in 1901.

William WHITE born 23 Jan 1834, bapt 23 Feb Ringwood Presbyterian. Father Thomas, mother Sarah

Parents’ marriage 1827 Ringwood - Sarah HAYSON (born 1804 Ringwood) to Thomas WHITE

1841 census Ringwood
Thomas WHITE (45) occup – painter? Printer?
Sarah White wife (35)
Elizabeth 13, George 12, Henry 9, Jane 8, William 6, John 5, Charles, 4, Samuel 2

1851 census Ringwood
Sarah White (48) the mother is now a widow and pauper
Children: Henry 18, William 14, John 13, Charles 12, Samuel 11, Francis 11, Elizabeth 22, Ann 7

1861 census Ringwood
William White 27 a boarder and grocers porter, living with the STREET family
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59032b0de9379091b1d27da1/william-white-1861-hampshire-ringwood-1834-?locale=en
The rest of family here
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59032b0de9379091b1d27d47/sarah-white-1861-hampshire-ringwood-1804-?locale=en

1871 census Ringwood
Sarah WHITE 67 pauper, and son Samuel 31 labourer

Annoying - I have not tracked William down in the 1871 census.

And Sarah WHITE died Ringwood last quarter 1871

[Neale1961]

I have had time to look some more, so will add some extra information.
As you have not been back to the thread you started, it seems you may have lost interest, so there seems little point in continuing further.

This 1881 census is the same William WHITE who I have noted in my previous posts (links provided), as the address and age fit. Here his place of birth recorded is just a few miles from the 2 other places he records in the census – Lyndhurst and Burley
I believe this is a continuation of the same family and the family you are looking for.

1881 Ringwood, New Street
William WHITE head 49 - Costermonger  - born Brockenhurst
Sarah WHITE wife 64 - born Burley
Sarah daughter 17 - glove maker - born Ringwood

The wife Sarah died before the next census, where William is with another “wife” called Ellen. I don’t believe he was actually married to this Ellen. Her husband Lewis LUCKHAM is very much alive.

This is the death for wife Sarah in 1883:
WHITE, SARAH       Age 67 
GRO Reference: 1883  J Quarter in RINGWOOD  Volume 02B  Page 430

The daughter Sarah died in 1887.
WHITE, SARAH       Age 22 
GRO Reference: 1887  J Quarter in RINGWOOD  Volume 02B  Page 400

Sarah could have given birth to an illegitimate daughter Mary Kate in 1885 – the birth rego I quoted earlier would confirm or not.

.............................

Note this marriage
on 3 Aug 1873 in Burley for a William WHITE to a Sarah BARNES, a widow. Her father is Henry SIMMONS.

Sarah SIMMONS is unmarried in 1851 census for Ringwood, living with her sister Rachael.

In 1861, I think she is Sarah Barnes working as a servant in Southhampton.

In the 1871 census in Crow / Ringwood – She is Sarah BARNES born 1817 Burley, a widow, unemployed, and boarding with the Browning family.

[Dundee]

The wife Sarah died before the next census, where William is with another “wife” called Ellen. I don’t believe he was actually married to this Ellen. Her husband Lewis LUCKHAM is very much alive.

It looks like they did marry.

Marriages Dec 1890

LUCKHAM,    Ellen    
POPE,    Charles        
STREET,    Mary Ann        
WHITE,     William

Ringwood    2b   1265     

I thought her husband was James, living in Ringwood in 1881, youngest daughter Fanny  is 6 months.

Debra     

[Neale1961]

Thanks Debra. That’s good. I was looking at another man with a Fanny.

Ellen Luckham- White died in 1909.
William White died 1914.

[Neale1961]

1911 census  Ringwood
William White age 76, grandfather, widower , living on private means
In the house of Fred SAMWAY age 29 and wife Mary age 25

I think the wife Mary Samway might be the niece who is living with your Henry in 1891 and in 1901.

Yes, I can confirm that this Mary SAMWAYS in 1911 census, who is with grandfather William WHITE is indeed Mary Kate WHITE – daughter of Sarah WHITE

By 1939 the family is living at 2 Railway cottages Ashurst, New Forest, Hampshire

Fred SAMWAYS bap 30 March 1879 Maiden Newton, Dorset – worked for the railway in various roles from porter to signalman
Mary Kate SAMWAYS (nee WHITE) born 11 July 1885
They had a son Frederick born in 1916. His birth rego here:

SAMWAYS, FREDERICK  JOHN     Mother: WHITE 
GRO Reference: 1916  J Quarter in RINGWOOD  Volume 02B  Page 1304
(Also, two possible daughters born to this couple in 1912 and 1914, births registered in Ringwood)

* Frederick SAMWAYS died 1949
* Mary Kate SAMWAYS nee White died 23 Feb 1956 at same address as in 1939.

[Neale1961]

Summary of records for William WHITE, believed to be father of John Henry

•   William’s baptism 1834 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JW8X-994

•   1841 census, Up Street Ringwood https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M79C-3MR

•   Death of William’s father in 1845
Death rego:     WHITE, THOMAS              Age 50     
GRO Reference: 1845  M Quarter in RINGWOOD  Volume 08  Page 163

•   1851 census, Up Street Ringwood https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGP6-4FT

•   1861 census Up Street Ringwood  https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59032b0de9379091b1d27da1/william-white-1861-hampshire-ringwood-1834-?locale=en

•   1871 census (Missing)  Given that William is selling goods (food or fuel) from a cart in the next few census records, it is possible he was doing something similar in 1871. He may have been travelling with his cart, perhaps living rough, and missed being recorded on the census.

•   1873 Marriage  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGQG-XNVZ

•   1881 census, New Street Ringwood  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q274-PSMQ

•   1890 Marriage  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DJM-PB2

•   1891 census, New Street Ringwood  https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/590335f7e9379091b1f62fec/william-white-1891-hampshire-ringwood-1841-?locale=en

•   1901 census, New Street Ringwood  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSFS-3FY

•   1911 census, 38 Christchurch Road Ringwood  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWQX-732

•   1914 Death of William WHITE
WHITE, WILLIAM       Age  78 
GRO Reference: 1914  M Quarter in RINGWOOD  Volume 02B  Page 1021


I would advise you to carefully examine all the names of witnesses on all marriages – the 2 for Henry William, and the 2 for his father William, in order to find further family links. Also look to see who the informant was on William’s death in 1914.