trying to find John Yates

[heywood]

It would be worth purchasing the death certificate to confirm or otherwise.
As said before, I think, the death does fit.

If Edward was conceived after John’s death, Mary Ann would likely give those birth and baptism details for the sake of propriety.

[Ladyhawk]

Post #50
Ladyhawk said:
Walton Herbert BELL born Leeds had a sister Maria A Bell (see previous census details posted), if he is the same person as Walton Herbert Bell/Beil born Canada (she could be the witness M A Bell to Walton Herbert Bell 1875 marriage to Mary Ann Yates (nee White)

Looking at the marriage of sister Maria pretty much confirms that Walton of Yorkshire is the same person as the Walton born Canada:

Maria marries in Blackburn on 02 June 1878 to William Cowell.  Her father is deceased John Bell, a coal merchant.  And her witnesses? Walton Herbert and Mary Ann Bell!

Apologies Summercrush hope I didn't confuse matters 

bbrat - that's a great find for WALTON Herbert BELL (born Leeds) sister Maria's marriage and confirming her father was also John BELL, Coal Merchant and a bonus that her brother and sister-in-law were witnesses 

Edited to add a snippet of 1878 marriage

[Ladyhawk]

It would be worth purchasing the death certificate to confirm or otherwise.
As said before, I think, the death does fit.

If Edward was conceived after John’s death, Mary Ann would likely give those birth and baptism details for the sake of propriety.

I agree with you Heywood

[Ladyhawk]

Thank you, Summercrush.

I think that information is not in dispute. It just seemed reading all the quoted messages, that there was some confusion about the two people called Maria … Bell.

As John Yates, is the subject of this thread, has he been found in his earlier life?

Is that Aldershot death accepted as your John Yates?

Maria Beatrice Beil is the half sister of Edward John Yates{mother Mary Ann White & Walter Herbert Beil} and Maria Agnes Beil is the sister of Walter Herbert Beil hence why i was confused or why there was confusion

I got confused myself with all the Maria's - I did amend my post (see reply 50) to say her middle name was not AGNES it was ANN as per the 1871 census.
I also added a possible birth registration for Maria Ann Bell born Halifax
GRO indexes show mmn Whittaker

[SummerCrush]

Thank you, Summercrush.

I think that information is not in dispute. It just seemed reading all the quoted messages, that there was some confusion about the two people called Maria … Bell.

As John Yates, is the subject of this thread, has he been found in his earlier life?

Is that Aldershot death accepted as your John Yates?

Maria Beatrice Beil is the half sister of Edward John Yates{mother Mary Ann White & Walter Herbert Beil} and Maria Agnes Beil is the sister of Walter Herbert Beil hence why i was confused or why there was confusion

I got confused myself with all the Maria's - I did amend my post (see reply 50) to say her middle name was not AGNES it was ANN as per the 1871 census.
I also added a possible birth registration for Maria Ann Bell born Halifax
GRO indexes show mmn Whittaker

well imagine having three different people with the same first name and same surname in a family line

Ida Yates{daughter of Edward John Yates & Mary Jane Aykroyd} married Christopher Winchester, his father was Christopher Winchester and then his father after that was Christopher Winchester as well. {confusing I know}

[Ladyhawk]

Mary Ann White re-marries a Quebec, Canada man called Walter Herbert Beil or Bell in 1875 she is living in Bacup, Lancashire until she dies sometime between 1900 - 1910

Do you have Mary Ann's marriage certificate to Walton, if so, what is Walton's father's name?

The reason I ask is this

This appears to be the same Walton Herbert Bell from 1881 census but his pob is not CANADA

1871 census Piece:   4147Folio:   23 Page number:   40

WALTON Herbert BELL occ book keeper pob Leeds Yorkshire living in Burnley Lancashire (his first name transcribed on Anc*y as Walter)

Head Maria BELL 61 wid.,
Dau Maria Ann Bell 24
Albert Preston Bell 2 Gd’son (GRO indexes birth entry 1869 no mmn)
John Harling Bell 2 Gd’son          ditto              ditto           ditto

1861 Piece:   3919 Folio:   9. Page number:   12
John BELL   62   Head
Maria    51   Wife
WALTON    19   Son, Leeds, Pupil Teacher National School
Mary H    17   Daughter
Maria A    14   Daughter
   
Walton Bell  Birth :   17 Sep 1841 Baptism 11 Oct 1841 St Peter Leeds
Father:   John Bell, occ. Sergeant in the 1st Royal Dragoons
Mother:   Maria, abode Barracks

As this is such a long post I have brought the above forward to confirm the earlier details posted about WALTON Herbert BELL born Leeds and his sister Maria ANN Bell...... and here is married Maria on 1881 census (mother of Albert Preston Bell on 1871 census)

Piece:   4695 Folio:   40 Page Number:   34

William Cowell   28
Maria Ann 34 Halifax
Ada    2
Herbert 1
Albert P. BELL 12

Maria's baptism

Maria Ann Bell Birth 13 Jun 1846
Baptism 15 Jul 1846 Halifax, St John the Baptist, Yorkshire
Father:   John, Pensioner  Mother:   Maria

[SummerCrush]

Mary Ann White re-marries a Quebec, Canada man called Walter Herbert Beil or Bell in 1875 she is living in Bacup, Lancashire until she dies sometime between 1900 - 1910

Do you have Mary Ann's marriage certificate to Walton, if so, what is Walton's father's name?

The reason I ask is this

This appears to be the same Walton Herbert Bell from 1881 census but his pob is not CANADA

1871 census Piece:   4147Folio:   23 Page number:   40

WALTON Herbert BELL occ book keeper pob Leeds Yorkshire living in Burnley Lancashire (his first name transcribed on Anc*y as Walter)

Head Maria BELL 61 wid.,
Dau Maria Ann Bell 24
Albert Preston Bell 2 Gd’son (GRO indexes birth entry 1869 no mmn)
John Harling Bell 2 Gd’son          ditto              ditto           ditto

1861 Piece:   3919 Folio:   9. Page number:   12
John BELL   62   Head
Maria    51   Wife
WALTON    19   Son, Leeds, Pupil Teacher National School
Mary H    17   Daughter
Maria A    14   Daughter
   
Walton Bell  Birth :   17 Sep 1841 Baptism 11 Oct 1841 St Peter Leeds
Father:   John Bell, occ. Sergeant in the 1st Royal Dragoons
Mother:   Maria, abode Barracks

As this is such a long post I have brought the above forward to confirm the earlier details posted about WALTON Herbert BELL born Leeds and his sister Maria ANN Bell...... and here is married Maria on 1881 census (mother of Albert Preston Bell on 1871 census)

Piece:   4695 Folio:   40 Page Number:   34

William Cowell   28
Maria Ann 34 Halifax
Ada    2
Herbert 1
Albert P. BELL 12

Maria's baptism

Maria Ann Bell Birth 13 Jun 1846
Baptism 15 Jul 1846 Halifax, St John the Baptist, Yorkshire
Father:   John, Pensioner  Mother:   Maria

Walter Herbert Beil states on a census that he was born in Quebec, Canada. so I don't think he was born in Leeds{I think we may have the wrong person after all}. Walter Herbert Beil's father John Job Profession on the marriage certificate for Walter & Mary Ann White was Coal Miner{but he was deceased when they married} but Mary Ann White's father was still alive.

[Ladyhawk]

Walter Herbert Beil states on a census that he was born in Quebec, Canada. so I don't think he was born in Leeds {I think we may have the wrong person after all}.

Is his name WALTER or WALTON? 

I strongly believe that WALTON Herbert BELL/BEIL born Canada / Leeds are the same person despite both Walton & Maria giving their father's occupation as a Coal Merchant and WALTON Herbert BELL from Leeds on 1871 census occupation book keeper also Walton and his wife Mary Ann (nee White) were witnesses to his sister Maria Ann's marriage

Any thoughts from others ?

[heywood]

“Any thoughts from others ?”

Just that we are not doing so well here