trying to find John Yates

[softly softly]

Ladyhawk & heywood, with the wealth of research you have done before and on this post sometimes op's do just not "accept findings". It's most frustrating but sometimes you have to just move on. Have a good day guy's

John

[heywood]

To be honest John, I haven’t been looking at the posts re Walter/Walton.
I have been trying to find John Yates.

However, it does seem right.
I see him in 1881 with birthplace Quebec.
Is he on later censuses?
It may be that his father was in Quebec whilst in the Army and the story was passed down.

[bbart]

 Walton Bell, of Yorkshire:  when this Walton was baptised on 11 Oct 1841, his father John was a Sargeant in the 1st Royal Dragoons, and they were living in Barracks.  They give a birth date of 17 sept 1841.
I cannot find him in the GRO. It is entirely possibly that he (John) was stationed in Quebec, and shipped back when Walton was born.  IF the ship was very very VERY fast!  If I remember correctly, I did check the British born overseas series, and had no luck.

As to the John Yates problem, in my opinion, if you reject the newpaper notice in Reply# 13, you have to reject the marriage newpaper item in Reply #12.  I have looked through all the John Yates military records, and in the right regiment in the right time period, there was only on that was a clerk and a staff sargeant.  All the rest were wrong regiments, and Privates. There were two I spent a long time on, as one was in the 6th, but he was a private, and never rose above that. The other one, also a private, died before the one in question. None of the others came close.  Somewhere in here, Daisypetal posted the movements of the 6th regiment, and they were spot on to match the newpaper items and timing of their marriage.

No one likes a brick wall.  It seems the marriage of Mary and John never got off the ground; perhaps she didn't want to move to Aldershot.  That part you will never know.  And it drives me nuts she is never with her parents in the early censuses!

[Ladyhawk]

To be honest John, I haven’t been looking at the posts re Walter/Walton.
I have been trying to find John Yates.

However, it does seem right.
I see him in 1881 with birthplace Quebec.
Is he on later censuses?
It may be that his father was in Quebec whilst in the Army and the story was passed down.

Good point Heywood re Walton's father may have been in Quebec 

I have been looking at both Mary Ann Yates (nee White) and John Yates but have not been as successful regarding him 

[SummerCrush]

Walter Herbert Beil states on a census that he was born in Quebec, Canada. so I don't think he was born in Leeds {I think we may have the wrong person after all}.

Is his name WALTER or WALTON? 

I strongly believe that WALTON Herbert BELL/BEIL born Canada / Leeds are the same person despite both Walton & Maria giving their father's occupation as a Coal Merchant and WALTON Herbert BELL from Leeds on 1871 census occupation book keeper also Walton and his wife Mary Ann (nee White) were witnesses to his sister Maria Ann's marriage

Any thoughts from others ?

his name is Walter Herbert Bell{surname on marriage certificate} to Mary Ann White but there son Cecil Percy and two daughters Maria Beatrice and May were given the surname Beil.

Maria Beatrice married in Todmorden, Yorkshire to a guy called George Phillips and they had two daughters called Dora Ivy Phillips{born 01 Nov 1903 Congleton, Cheshire, England and she died 2000 in Lancashire} and a daughter called Gertrude Phillips {born 10 Aug 1908 in Rochdale, Lancashire, England and died 1963 in Rochdale, Lancashire}

I think Cecil also married in the same area as his sister, then Cecil and his wife Jane Ann Alston moved to Oxford after getting married {that's where Jane was when she got word that Cecil had been killed in France}

May Beil married Charles Cook{but we know zero about him}

but my Aunt born 1944{the last surviving daughter of Ida Yates & Christopher Winchester} said when after she was born Cecil, his wife Jane Ann and their kids, Maria Beatrice, her husband George and their kids, May Beil & her husband Charles were NEVER EVER spoken about, they never went to visit them, no pictures of them with our side of the family, no letters sent and no telephone calls that she can remember either

surely if they were Edward Half siblings there would have been some sort of communication or letters or pictures left somewhere but there's nothing considering Ida{Edward's daughter} was alive until 1979

[SummerCrush]

Walton Bell, of Yorkshire:  when this Walton was baptised on 11 Oct 1841, his father John was a Sargeant in the 1st Royal Dragoons, and they were living in Barracks.  They give a birth date of 17 sept 1841.
I cannot find him in the GRO. It is entirely possibly that he (John) was stationed in Quebec, and shipped back when Walton was born.  IF the ship was very very VERY fast!  If I remember correctly, I did check the British born overseas series, and had no luck.

As to the John Yates problem, in my opinion, if you reject the newpaper notice in Reply# 13, you have to reject the marriage newpaper item in Reply #12.  I have looked through all the John Yates military records, and in the right regiment in the right time period, there was only on that was a clerk and a staff sargeant.  All the rest were wrong regiments, and Privates. There were two I spent a long time on, as one was in the 6th, but he was a private, and never rose above that. The other one, also a private, died before the one in question. None of the others came close.  Somewhere in here, Daisypetal posted the movements of the 6th regiment, and they were spot on to match the newpaper items and timing of their marriage.

No one likes a brick wall.  It seems the marriage of Mary and John never got off the ground; perhaps she didn't want to move to Aldershot.  That part you will never know.  And it drives me nuts she is never with her parents in the early censuses!

Mary Ann White born 1842 in Bridgwater, Somerset, UK.

Mary Ann White is on the 1861 census when she is living in Bridgwater, Somerset, UK before she gets married to John Yates, she living with John Poole {head of the family aged 43}, his wife Mary A Kirk{aged 54 from Hinton St George in Dorset, UK} and her cousin James White {aged 17} but John Yates isn't on that census

[SummerCrush]

Mary Ann White's Mother Eliza Dyer Kirk born in Bridgwater, Somerset, UK some time in 1824 and she died 22nd April 1871 in a house on Bath Road, Bridgwater, Somerset, UK {same year that John Yates died and Mary Ann White's son Edward John Yates was Born}.

Mary Ann White's father William George White was born 1821 in Colchester, Essex and died 22 October 1895 in a house in St John Street, Bridgwater, Somerset, England

[heywood]

Mary Ann White born 1842 in Bridgwater, Somerset, UK.

Mary Ann White is on the 1861 census when she is living in Bridgwater, Somerset, UK before she gets married to John Yates, she living with John Poole {head of the family aged 43}, his wife Mary A Kirk{aged 54 from Hinton St George in Dorset, UK} and her cousin James White {aged 17} but John Yates isn't on that census

I think Mary Ann can be followed through her marriage/grandmother/cousin and sisters.
James White is 7 yrs, by the way, in 1861 not 17 yrs but that is of no consequence really.

Back to John Yates. How do we know he isn’t on that census?
I can’t see a possible candidate yet, but where would you look? What information, other than his father’s name, would you use?

[heywood]

It’s clear that you have a wealth of information about your family.

It is a pity that you don’t seem to be accepting that the death in Aldershot may be John but only the certificate will confirm that.

As bbart pointed out, the marriage notice fits with the death notice.