Author Topic: ELLEN WRIGHT (b 1862/63 in LEEDS)  (Read 973 times)

Offline jonw65

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Re: ELLEN WRIGHT (b 1862/63 in LEEDS)
« Reply #45 on: Wednesday 21 September 22 20:18 BST (UK) »
Witnesses were Joseph and Isabella Phillips

Looks good.
The likely witnesses seem to be a married couple.
In 1881 they are at 23 Beach Street, Bishopwearmouth.
Joseph Phillips Head 30 Ship Plater, born Birmingham (perhaps forget him!)
Isabella Phillips Wife 26 Durham Sunderl(and)
Alice T* Phillips Daur 7 Durham Sunderl
John Z Phillips Son 5 Durham Ludworth
George W Phillips Son 3 Durham Sunderl
Maryann Phillips Daur 1 Durham Sunderl
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q271-X4NN

Take a look at the birth reg of the younger son
PHILLIPS, GEORGE WRIGHT     
Mother's Maiden Surname: HOWE
GRO Reference: 1877  S Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 584

Yes, that is a Z middle initial for the older son!
PHILLIPS, JOHN  ZEBULON     
Mother's Maiden Surname: HOWE 
GRO Reference: 1875  J Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 559

*Alice T? probably was Alice L (Alice Laura)

Offline Jim Webster

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Re: ELLEN WRIGHT (b 1862/63 in LEEDS)
« Reply #46 on: Wednesday 21 September 22 20:47 BST (UK) »
My guesswork is mainly based on an 1871 census in 7 Water Street, Hipperholme cum Brighouse, Halifax where an Ellen first appears. Then the 1881 census Ellen is now living with her brother Thomas and his family in number 9 Water Street.
Then, based on information posted, I have assumed she moved in with another family member, George and his family at 30 Hedley Street, Sunderland where she was living in 1884 as shown on the marriage certificate. Need to check this further as George's birthplace is listed as Sherburn is not a recognised family area..

Offline jonw65

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Re: ELLEN WRIGHT (b 1862/63 in LEEDS)
« Reply #47 on: Wednesday 21 September 22 21:05 BST (UK) »
Or maybe she first appears in Bishopwearmouth in 1871?

1871, Bishopwearmouth
George Wright 32 Ships Steward Durham Sherburn House
Mary A Wright 32
Nellie Wright 8

Offline jonw65

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Re: ELLEN WRIGHT (b 1862/63 in LEEDS)
« Reply #48 on: Wednesday 21 September 22 21:07 BST (UK) »
Puzzle re GRO Index
children all registered Sunderland
mmn Wright

*Annie 1889  mmn HOWE  died 1889
*Annie Hill 1892  mmn HOWE 

We keep coming back to Howe!


Offline jonw65

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Re: ELLEN WRIGHT (b 1862/63 in LEEDS)
« Reply #49 on: Wednesday 21 September 22 22:21 BST (UK) »
Joseph and Isabella Phillips seem to be together in the 1871 census.
Isabella age 19.
She died in 1891, and was buried 10 February at Bishopwearmouth Cemetery
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-BPQ9

Isabella Phillips, wife of Joseph Phillips, Plater
Age 35 years.
Died at 36 Milburn Street.

So her age is a bit uncertain. She must tie up with Mary Ann Wright nee Howe in some way.
They might be sisters.
Another possibility is that she is the Isabella Howe registered June qtr 1855, Sunderland, who may have been illegitimate, according to the new GRO birth index. I guess it's not totally impossible that Mary Ann was her mother!
Nothing is certain about her at the moment.


Offline Jim Webster

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Re: ELLEN WRIGHT (b 1862/63 in LEEDS)
« Reply #50 on: Wednesday 21 September 22 22:21 BST (UK) »
Sorry jonw65 if I appear rude but it is not Ellen's children i'm looking for.
It is Ellen's parents and whereabouts leading up to her marriage in 1884.
The only thing I know for sure as fact from her marriage certificate is that her father was called George.
With regard to GEORGE WRIGHT PHILLIPS and JOHN ZEBULON PHILLIPS. It would seem to me that their mother ISABELLA is likely to have the maiden name HOWE.

Offline Annette7

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Re: ELLEN WRIGHT (b 1862/63 in LEEDS)
« Reply #51 on: Wednesday 21 September 22 22:23 BST (UK) »
So, as conclusively shown by Ladyhawk, the Ellen Wright - dau. of George and Martha - is not your Ellen Wright i.e. in 1891 'your' Ellen is with her husband Joseph William Davis whilst this Ellen is still single and living with her widowed mother Martha still in Yorkshire.

This takes us back to the other contender, 'shown as Nelly' in 1871 with George and Mary Ann (nee Howe).   George was still single in 1861 so should have married between 1861 and 1871 - however, no trace of a marriage between this pair so looks like they never married.  Young 'Nelly' bc.1862 was, I believe, born to Mary Ann late 1861/early 1862 and, if registered, birth would probably have been as 'Howe'.   Can't see an obvious birth entry though and the next child of George and Mary Ann is Thomas Henry Wright, birth Dec.1868 mmn Howe some 7 yrs after 'Nelly' which suggests they probably didn't start living together until late 1860's.  (It was not the marriage of George Wright and Mary Ann McKenna in Sept.qtr. 1868 as followed this couple).   

I don't think that it was a coincidence that your Ellen married from Hedley Street where George and Mary Ann lived.  I firmly believe that they were her parents and that in 1881 she is the Elen Howe, servant, born Sunderland in Bishopwearnouth (where her family lived).

I appreciate you want definitive proof but this family were somewhat unconventional in that parents didn't marry, and Ellen's birth not registered so don't think you are going to find written proof and only have the census to go by.

Annette 
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Offline jonw65

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Re: ELLEN WRIGHT (b 1862/63 in LEEDS)
« Reply #52 on: Wednesday 21 September 22 22:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Jim
The point is that two of the Davis children have the maiden name of Ellen as Howe, rather than Wright, according to the new GRO birth index.
That in itself suggests that Ellen's origins may not have been straightforward. Hence your difficulty in finding her.

The George Wright family in Bishopwearmouth who were in Hedley Street, again the GRO tells us that mum Mary Ann's maiden name was Howe.

And Howe was also the maiden name of Isabella Phillips, wife of Joseph, who appear to be the marriage witnesses in 1884.

It is hard not to conclude that the answer to your problem is likely to be that Mary Ann Wright nee Howe was Ellen's mother.
We all understand how frustrating it is not to be able to pin down a birth registration or a baptism for Ellen.


Offline Jim Webster

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Re: ELLEN WRIGHT (b 1862/63 in LEEDS)
« Reply #53 on: Thursday 22 September 22 22:28 BST (UK) »
Lots to digest but I think I have it and summarise as follows :

1862 born between 10/12/1861 and 09/12/1862 to GEORGE WRIGHT and MARY ANN HOWE
1871 census in Ravensworth Street, Sunderland (listed as NELLIE WRIGHT born Sunderland 1863).
1881 census in Fawcett Street, Sunderland (using name ELLEN HOWE born Sunderland 1863).
1884 Marriage ELLEN WRIGHT to JOHN WILLIAM DAVIS (her address on marriage certificate is that of her parents).
1885 and 1887 First 2 children born (mmn WRIGHT).
1889 birth of ANNIE WRIGHT (mmn HOWE) died same year.
1891 census in Carol Street, Sunderland (born Sunderland 1863)
1889 birth of ANNIE HILL WRIGHT (mmn HOWE).
1893 ----> all other children born (mmn WRIGHT).
1901 census in William Street, Sunderland (born LEEDS, YORKSHIRE 1863) .
1911 census in Peacock Street, Sunderland (born LEEDS, YORKSHIRE 1862).
1915 died in Sunderland

Appreciate you letting me know if any of the above is incorrect before I add to my tree and then go in search of her parents in more detail.