Author Topic: Looking for death cert of maternal grandmother Scotland  (Read 3298 times)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Looking for death cert of maternal grandmother Scotland
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 30 August 22 00:23 BST (UK) »
Cheers Gadget!

Cecilia and husband had separated 1911
Did they separate post/prior to the 1911 census?

Where are the family or Cecilia in 1911?

You may think some questions odd/irrelevant but every piece of info. in tracing someone is relevant to try & piece things together.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline bbart

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Re: Looking for death cert of maternal grandmother Scotland
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 30 August 22 00:28 BST (UK) »
Well, I had to get Cecilia's brothers marriage just to confirm this is the same family. The parents match.....

Info from his marriage:
08 July1898 marriage at St. Pauls Episcopal Church, Dundee
William Milne Nairn, a Private in the Scots Greys, age 26, address of 15 Midkirk Style, son of deceased Police Constable James Nairn and Barbara Nairn m.s. Crichton
marries
Weddell Thomas Simon, age 24 or 29, flax preparer, same address as William, daughter of
deceased labourer William Simon and Harriet Simon m.s. McCombie.

So that's a good match.  Read on..... what are the odds? (I didn't proof read, might be typos!)

Dundee People's Journal 13 March 1915
Woman Sue for Aliment.
Sheriff Armour-Hannay at Cupar on Thursday fixed proof for 18th March in an action for aliment at the instance of Mrs Waddell Thomas Symer or Nairn, 6 Church Lane Dundee, against William Milne Nairn, ploughman, formerly residing at Hayston Farm, Leuchars, and now at Newton of Nydie, Guardbridge.  Pursuer claims aliment at the rate of 12 per annum, payable in weekly installments, as from 28th February 1913.
Pursuer avers that she was married to defender on 8th July 1898, and resided with him until 28th February 1913.  About the latter date  defender left her, and since then has not returned to live with her, nor provided a suitable home for her.  In the interval he has provided almost nothing for her maintenance, and she alleges and believes that at Hayston and Newton of Nydie he has been living with another woman as husband and wife.
Mr J. Methyen Mitchell, solicitor, Cupar, who appeared for pursuer, mentioned that no answers had been lodged by defender, but he thought it desirable to have a proof in the action.

And many years later....

Dundee Courier 14 April 1927

Thirteen Year Old Bigamy
Man Sentenced at Dundee

A bigamous marriage contracted more than thirteen years ago had a sequel in Dundee Sheriff Court yesterday, when the delinquent was sent to prison for two months.
William Milne Nairn, in custody, admitted that while being the lawful husband of Weddell Thomas Simon or Nairn, residing at 6 Church Lane, Dundee, and while she was still alive, on February 23rd 1914, at the U.F. Manse, Kennoway, he bigamously married Elspeth Doctor or Brown, Vicarsfield Farm, Leuchars.
For accused, Mr F W Moon, solicitor, said that in 1914 accused went to Fife, and his legal wife refused to go with him.  While in Fife he took ill, and the widow, whom he bigamously married, took pity on him, and gave him a home.  In order to make a home for himself he went through a form of marriage with her.  He had been keeping both women all the time.
Mr W F Mackintosh, fiscal, said that after accused had lived with his lawful wife for some time a separation took place, but she refused to give him cause for separation.  In 1913 Nairn because acquainted with the widow, and represented to her that he was single.






Offline bbart

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Re: Looking for death cert of maternal grandmother Scotland
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 30 August 22 00:47 BST (UK) »
I forgot to mention.... there was no RCE on William's marriage.... which is very odd?

Offline bbart

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Re: Looking for death cert of maternal grandmother Scotland
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 30 August 22 01:11 BST (UK) »


Offline Evelyn V

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Re: Looking for death cert of maternal grandmother Scotland
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 30 August 22 01:23 BST (UK) »
I forgot to mention.... there was no RCE on William's marriage.... which is very odd?

This is incredible............Bigamy seems to run in the family as the father James Nairn apparently went off to England and had another wife before dying in 1908. Beginning to think my mother had a Great escape. in not being raised with all of this...........its just mind blowing........
One other question if I may.............The Cecilia buried 1947 Panbride is ruled out.............can you say why .......I do not drink but this family could drive one to it!
thank you so much.............its good to know............thats her brother for sure...........

Offline Evelyn V

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Re: Looking for death cert of maternal grandmother Scotland
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 30 August 22 01:40 BST (UK) »
Cheers Gadget!

Cecilia and husband had separated 1911
Did they separate post/prior to the 1911 census?
They were separated prior to 1911 Census.

Where are the family or Cecilia in 1911?
Father and three lads shown in 10 South George St Dundee . Census taken April 2nd 1911.
Cecilia whereabouts unknown at that time.

You may think some questions odd/irrelevant but every piece of info. in tracing someone is relevant to try & piece things together.
thank you again...........am learning a lot here...............

Annie

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Looking for death cert of maternal grandmother Scotland
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 30 August 22 01:41 BST (UK) »
I forgot to mention.... there was no RCE on William's marriage.... which is very odd?
Might the RCE be attached to his original/legal marriage?

For others interested in the post...

Marriage 1...
NAIRN WILLIAM MILNE / SIMON WEDDELL THOMAS 1898 - 282/3 127 St Clement (Dundee)

Marriage 2...
NAIRN WILLIAM / BROWN ELSPETH 1914 - 434/ 3 Kennoway (Fife)

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Evelyn V

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Re: Looking for death cert of maternal grandmother Scotland
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 30 August 22 02:41 BST (UK) »
She was listed on son William's DC.
She is recorded on her son William's death record in New Hampshire, 1963. No info about her status though.

I'm going to have a look for the family in the US census records later tonight - unless anyone else can find them.
What are the names of the other 2 sons & any other info. prior to their deaths?

William born Apr15/1896 married Jessie Mackay Feb11/1920 Dundee Scotland.
Immig.to USA  He died 1963. New Hampshire. Marr cert shows his parents names
with (DIV)divorce after his mothers name.

John born July 16 1900 Dundee. He married Bessie Mitchell 1925 Boston USA.After her death in
1927 he married Lillian Effinger in 1934 till death 1975. John had a son by each marriage.
there was no evidence as yet that Cecilia was around at the time of marriages.

James the youngest son born Sept 1905 and to date death unknown. I had tried to
track down their decendants in USA but noone knew exactly what happened to him.
One said he died 1937 Albany New york possibly married to his nurse. to date have
no proof that info is correct.

I really don't know which states mention mothers' maiden names etc. on marriages i.e. that info. would be useful.
If like Scotland, mms is listed on marriages along with status - whether deceased & or other married names.

Evelyn V...
What name did Cecilia use on the birth of your mother?
Cecilia signed her name as Cecilia Milne on the birth cert.

Who was the informant on both her parents' deaths?
Her mother Barbara died 1909 and believe it was her daughter Ann Petro who informed.
Her mother is on 1901 census sharing a roof with the Petro family
Her father James Nairn died in England 1908 and had another family by then.


Did she have siblings who married, was she a witness to any?[quote author=bbart link=
Brother William who married and also committed bigamy ( just found out.)
She had a sister Annie or Ann who married John Petro Dundee .they had a daughter
Cecilia Petro.

Hope my reply is useful and do appreciate all of this very much. thank you Evelyn V
Annie

Offline Evelyn V

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Re: Looking for death cert of maternal grandmother Scotland
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 30 August 22 04:45 BST (UK) »
This one is 100 % ruled out:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/127400479/cecilia-milne
I see from certificate the parents are not the correct ones.

Upon reflection re other questions there was a USA Davidson decendant
who shared that the lads were told not to ever mention their mother .
Given the obvious dim view it is doubtful that Cecilia was in the States.
this person was older as am I  Their reluctance to know Nairns or anyone
related understandable. Cecilia's somewhat free spirit may have
prevailed........however never found her on shiplists. so sorry to bombard
you with details but as you say its all part of the whole.