Author Topic: Struggling to make sense of records about my great grandfather  (Read 547 times)

Offline victoriamarie1

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Struggling to make sense of records about my great grandfather
« on: Thursday 01 September 22 22:15 BST (UK) »
Im in the U.K. and started researching a few weeks ago and have been doing pretty okay but really struggling with my great grandfather. My mum never met or knew him, she only knew his name and that my grandfather didn’t want anything to do with him.

So far I have found out:
- He married my great grandmother in Nov 1918. They have separate addresses on the marriage certificate
- Their first child was born Jan 1919 (two months after marriage)
- My great grandfather was discharged from the army mid 1919
- In 1921 census, my great grandmother and her daughter are living with her mother. My great grandfather is living with his sister and her family.
- My grandfather was born in 1923. The address is my great grandmothers mothers house.
- 1939 register shows my great grandmother living alone with another man. My great grandfather is living with another of his sisters. Their daughter is living with my great grandmothers mother. And I cannot find my grandfather but I know he was 100% in the navy so I can only assume he lied about his age and joined up.
- My great grandmother definitely remarried in 1949 and it’s possible my great grandfather did too but I’m not sure.
- My mother was born in 1949 and my great grandfather found out and tried to make contact and give them some money but my grandfather wasn’t interested.

I cant seem to find any record of my great grandfather ever living with his wife or children and I can’t make sense of it. I don’t know why my grandad stopped speaking to him or if he ever really had anything to do with him and my mum said he never spoke about him.

Does anyone have any ideas of what I could do to try and figure any of it out? I feel like I’m losing my mind trying to piece it all together lol. I found out one of my grandads cousins is still alive but she doesn’t know anything. I’ve tried my great grandfathers siblings descendants on ancestry but most are dead or don’t know anything or didn’t have children. I feel like someone must know something or there must be a way I can figure it out myself

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Struggling to make sense of records about my great grandfather
« Reply #1 on: Friday 02 September 22 13:34 BST (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat Victoria  :D

Do you think you could provide the names of those that you know are deceased please?  Where is all this taking place?

When and where your deceased relatives were born would also be helpful.

If your grandfather joined up during the 2nd World War then he is unlikely to be on the 1939 Register.  Depends on when he joined.

Giving us the name of at least your great grandfather would help in checking his whereabouts. 
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Offline Dundee

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Re: Struggling to make sense of records about my great grandfather
« Reply #2 on: Friday 02 September 22 14:13 BST (UK) »

If your grandfather joined up during the 2nd World War then he is unlikely to be on the 1939 Register.  Depends on when he joined.


As well as that, he was born in 1923 so should be a redacted entry.


- My grandfather was born in 1923. The address is my great grandmothers mothers house.


Are you saying that the husband of the great grandmother is named as the father on that birth certificate?  Did your grandfather name him as his father when he married?

- My great grandmother definitely remarried in 1949

Unfortunately if they divorced and it was after 1937 then the records are not likely to have survived.

Debra  :)

Offline victoriamarie1

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Re: Struggling to make sense of records about my great grandfather
« Reply #3 on: Friday 02 September 22 14:23 BST (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat Victoria  :D

Do you think you could provide the names of those that you know are deceased please?  Where is all this taking place?

When and where your deceased relatives were born would also be helpful.

If your grandfather joined up during the 2nd World War then he is unlikely to be on the 1939 Register.  Depends on when he joined.

Giving us the name of at least your great grandfather would help in checking his whereabouts.

Hi, sorry I'm new to the website and wasn't sure how much detail to give away straight away lol. Also sorry if I'm not replying properly!!

All of them are deceased. My great grandfather was John Edward Schofield born 1892 in Wakefield to Francis William Schofield and Lavinia Schofield, I don't know when he died, his wife was Dorothy Christine Marshall Whytell born 1900 in Leeds, died 1968 in Leeds. They married in 1918 in Leeds. My grandfather is Fenton Whytell Schofield born 1923 in Leeds died 2005 in Leeds.


Offline victoriamarie1

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Re: Struggling to make sense of records about my great grandfather
« Reply #4 on: Friday 02 September 22 14:27 BST (UK) »

If your grandfather joined up during the 2nd World War then he is unlikely to be on the 1939 Register.  Depends on when he joined.


As well as that, he was born in 1923 so should be a redacted entry.


- My grandfather was born in 1923. The address is my great grandmothers mothers house.


Are you saying that the husband of the great grandmother is named as the father on that birth certificate?  Did your grandfather name him as his father when he married?

- My great grandmother definitely remarried in 1949

Unfortunately if they divorced and it was after 1937 then the records are not likely to have survived.

Debra  :)

Hi, yes I thought it could be a redacted entry but he died in 2005 so it might not be but also I've found that even when people have been dead a long time the entry is redacted. For example, his wife, my grandmother died in 1992 and her entry on the 1939 register is redacted.

Yes my great grandmother's husband is listed as my grandfather's father on his birth certificate. I don't have his marriage certificate yet but I have ordered it. My mum told me that he had loads of original copies of birth, death and marriage certificates and one day just decided to throw them all away lol, thanks a lot Grandad!!

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Struggling to make sense of records about my great grandfather
« Reply #5 on: Friday 02 September 22 14:41 BST (UK) »

Giving us the name of at least your great grandfather would help in checking his whereabouts. 

Plus, his age and occupation/s on 1921 census and 1939 Register. Also, names of his father and sisters.
Have you looked for him or his family on 1911 census?

You can ask on the military board if you want details or explanations of his service. There's a World War 1 section. If his records survive, they may include name/s & addresses of his next-of-kin. Did his discharge papers have address of his intended residence?
Cowban

Offline victoriamarie1

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Re: Struggling to make sense of records about my great grandfather
« Reply #6 on: Friday 02 September 22 15:22 BST (UK) »

Giving us the name of at least your great grandfather would help in checking his whereabouts. 

Plus, his age and occupation/s on 1921 census and 1939 Register. Also, names of his father and sisters.
Have you looked for him or his family on 1911 census?

You can ask on the military board if you want details or explanations of his service. There's a World War 1 section. If his records survive, they may include name/s & addresses of his next-of-kin. Did his discharge papers have address of his intended residence?

John Edward Schofield was born 1892 to Francis William Schofield and Lavinia Atkinson. He had siblings Edith, Lister, Annie, Ada, Bertha, Elsie and Hilda. So far I have only found that of his siblings only Edith, Bertha and Elsie were married and only Edith and Elsie had children. I managed to find a descendent of both Edith and Elsie but they don't seem to know anything.

In the 1911 census, he was still living at home with his mother and her second husband, (his father died in 1905 in a work accident) and his sisters Ada, Bertha, Elsie and Hilda.

On the 1921 census, my great grandfather John Edward Schofield age 28 was living with his sister Edith Norton (nee Schofield) and her husband and children in Wakefield. He was a "machine minder" in Dewsbury.

In the 1939 register he was living with his sister Bertha Dransfield (nee Schofield) and her husband Clifford, in Wakefield. They had no children as far as I can tell.

The service records I found online were just about his war pension. His own I think was for 1921 and it was the address where he was living with his sister Edith, there's a secondary address which I think is where he lived with his parents.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Struggling to make sense of records about my great grandfather
« Reply #7 on: Friday 02 September 22 15:41 BST (UK) »
I would agree that your great grandfather's military service may well hold the key to this problem. If he was stationed in the UK but away from his home, or was back in England on leave in around  Mar or April 1918 he may have felt less pressured by the social norms of the day and that was how your grandmother's older sibling was conceived. Then perhaps there was a shotgun marriage but without sufficient love behind it to sustain the marriage. Possibly he already had a sweetheart back at home and never really intended to stay with your great grandmother, having 'done the right thing' in marrying her to legitimise the child. There were a lot children born in similar circumstances at the end of the war.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Struggling to make sense of records about my great grandfather
« Reply #8 on: Friday 02 September 22 15:57 BST (UK) »
There were a lot children born in similar circumstances at the end of the war.

There was also an increase in marriage breakdowns after the war. Divorce laws were changed in 1920s.
Cowban