Seeking help with ANNE JONES and son WILLIAM in BERRIEW/WELSHPOOL 1859-61

[amondg]

1861 census  Gungrog Fawr

Thomas Morris 33
Anne 23
William A Jones 1
Jane Morris 6months

[heywood]

With regard to John Jones in Wolverhampton.
Free Reg has this marriage https://www.freereg.org.uk/

John Jones and Louisa Deaken. Is that right?
His father is David Jones, Miller.

A published tree re Evan Morris and Ann Jones has details (quoted rather than attached to the tree) of that marriage
The Independent Chapel Welchpool.
Father named as William Jones farm labourer (deceased)

So that might be another difficulty 

Added
Perhaps best to forget Evan but it is Jane who connects the two and concentrate on William. I can only see a couple of servants in 1871.

[GeoffTurner]

Yes that is the right John Jones and Louisa Deaken. They had four children including a daughter Zillah Annie (married name Gleve). We have pictures of Zillah and her family in the family photo album. I think Anne Jones who married Thomas Morris was probably the sister of John Jones, which means her father was also David Jones the miller.
I have communicated with Haze02 who has Anne Jones saying at her marriage that her father was William (decd), but of course that is the Anne Jones who married EVAN Morris.
There is a Thomas Morris who died in 1891 in Llanfyllin (where Thomas Morris was born in 1828) which could be Anne's husband. But i is hard to tell with such common names.

[heywood]

I know you have lots of evidence linking William to Thomas Jones and a close relationship there.

Is your William known as William Alexander on other records besides that baptism you have and 1861 census - William A?

Does his marriage in Australia show a father’s name?

Sorry -forgot this
Do you have later evidence that his mother was named Ann/e?

[GeoffTurner]

The link is just to Anne Jones who married William Morris. That comes from the 1859 baptism (William Alexander Jones) and 1861 census (William A Jones). He never used his middle name in Australia, to the best of my knowledge, and he is just called William Jones in his obits. The family knew him as Billy Jones. The 1893 marriage documents just use William Jones. The names of his parents are not required, just a statement that he is of legal age and free to marry etc. The clergyman signed another piece of paper saying he had legally married them. I think they are probably just the family records so I have sent away to the registry to see if there is more on those documents. We know he was 84 when he died in 1944, so 1859-60 works. One of the obits says he was born in Welshpool and went as a youth to Wolverhampton where he was in the Heath Town school choir (the John Jones family lived at Heath Town) before migrating to Australia at age 19. So that all ties in. But I get the feeling I should hold off now until I see if the BDM tells me anything new (that will be in a week or so).
Thanks for all your help. Geoff 

[heywood]

Thanks.
It all still seems to be circumstantial at the moment, especially if you have no record which gives his mother’s name. There are other William Jones born Welshpool around the same time in 1871 census.

[GeoffTurner]

I have followed heywood's advice and got the transcript of the official marriage registration for William Jones, which was not among the family documents I had. That says he was born in Wolverhampton and is 29yo on 2 Nov 1893, so born about 1864. It gives his father as David Jones (furnaceman) and his mother as Anne Bevan. We know William stayed with John Bevan Jones in Wolverhampton, who had the same parents. I thought that might have been his uncle, but perhaps it was his brother. I have John Bevan Jones' baptism at Berriew on 20 Nov 1836, and the marriage of David Jones and Anne Bevan at Berriew on 2 Mar 1835. Anne Bevan was baptised at Berriew on 11 May 1817 and David Jones was baptised there on 29 Apr 1818, if I have the right people. So when John Bevan Jones was born, his father was about 18 and his mother was about 19. If they are also the parents of William, born about 1864 (I haven't found a baptism), then Anne would have been 47 and David would have been 46, which is starting to ring a few alarm bells.
We know from the family picture album that John Bevan Jones' daughter Zillah Anne (Gillian) is described as William's sister, whereas she would have been his niece, but with only four years' difference in age. That doesn't worry me.
However, the other possibility is that the original scenario is correct, with William as an illegitimate son taking his mother's name as his own, and that William was filling in the gaps in his own parentage by borrowing names and details from his uncle when it came to filling out forms in Australia.
The other consideration is that the child born out of wedlock at Berriew is William ALEXANDER Jones, and none of the Australian material carries a middle name.
So I have made progress -- I think. If Anne Bevan was born in 1817, perhaps William was born earlier than 1864, but has shaved a few years off his age on his marriage papers -- especially as his bride is only 15. If I could find an earlier baptism, where Anne Bevan was, say, 44 rather than 47 when she gave birth to William, I would be happier. Thanks to everyone.
Geoff     

[heywood]

In 1881 2812 /57/16

John Jones has a brother Pryce, 25 yrs living with him.
In 1871, there was a brother David. 20 yrs.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/. has births with mother Bevan/Beavan.

There is also a birth for:
William Jones 1858 June quarter Montgomery with mother Bevan.

Here is William Jones, 3 yrs living with parents David and Ann and siblings Pryce and David.

[heywood]

1871 5620 /44/15
Berriew
David Jones 59 yrs
Ann Jones 51 yrs
William Jones 12 yrs son

Added
1881 5490/38/2

David and Ann but no children with them.

Whilst this fits well with your recent finds, there are still various William Jones b 1858, Berriew in later censuses.