Author Topic: Olive Johnson b.1884 Croydon  (Read 301 times)

Offline Steve Hubbard

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Olive Johnson b.1884 Croydon
« on: Thursday 22 September 22 11:06 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I am trying to trace the ancestors of my great grandmother, Olive Johnson. According to the 1939 register her DOB was 17th May 1884. According to the 1911 census she was born in Croydon. Her 1905 marriage certificate states father's name as unknown. Freebmd does not turn up any Johnsons in Croydon between 1883 and 1885. There appears to have been a large workhouse in Croydon but this is speculation. There is an inmates list for 1881, which is too early but I haven't seen one for 1891.

Any ideas please?

Offline garstonite

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Re: Olive Johnson b.1884 Croydon
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 22 September 22 16:54 BST (UK) »
Hiya Steve and a warm welcome to Rootschat
Olives marriage in 1905 - there are 5 Olive Johnson marriages in 1905 on freebmd
Can you post who she married please .
did she have a middle name ?
can't find any birth on freebmd in 1884 for Olive Johnson born Croydon
there is a birth in St Giles London for Olive Isidore M Johnson ??   is that her
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline QueenoftheWest

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Re: Olive Johnson b.1884 Croydon
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 22 September 22 17:13 BST (UK) »
Is this Olive's marriage?:

Olive Johnson married Albert Healey on 7 May 1905 in Sutton, Surrey. Father's name is unknown.

There is an Olive Healey living in Sutton in the 1939 register, but her birth date is 17 April 1884, not May.

Queenie :)
Ecclestone - London & Middlesex/Surrey
Hamlin/Hamlyn - Long Sutton & Martock, Somerset
Head - Marlborough & Alton Priors, Wiltshire
Laurance/Lawrance - London & Middlesex/Surrey
Minson - Kingstone, Somerset/Symondsbury, Dorset
Owsley - Buckland St Mary, Somerset
Pyke - (West) Weeke/Wick, Pewsey, Wiltshire
Salisbury - Dowlish Wake/West Dowlish, Somerset

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Olive Johnson b.1884 Croydon
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 22 September 22 19:45 BST (UK) »
The only Olive Johnson or similar the right sort of age I can see with a clear connection to Croydon is a servant enumerated there in 1901. She was born Midhurst and can be found in Pulborough boarding with Johnsons (presumably relatives) in 1891. There's a birth in Q2 1885 that fits - no mother's maiden name

Baptism on 15 May 1885 suggests parents are Jesse and Caroline


Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Olive Johnson b.1884 Croydon
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 22 September 22 20:10 BST (UK) »
1921 place of birth for Olive Healey suggests this is the same person

Offline Steve Hubbard

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Re: Olive Johnson b.1884 Croydon
« Reply #5 on: Friday 23 September 22 04:51 BST (UK) »
Thank you for the welcome and all the replies.

I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The 1939 register does indeed say 17th April 1884 rather than May  :-[.

Yes, her marriage was 7th May 1905 to Albert Healey at Sutton parish church. Both the bride and groom were living at 24 Clarence Road Sutton at the time of marriage. Her age was stated as 21, which is consistent with Q2 1884 birth (or a bit earlier).

I have no evidence of a middle name. I have come across an Olive Ruth Johnson but she appears to have been born Q3 1884 in Epsom and was living with both parents, so not a good match.

I'll check out the other leads.

Steve

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Olive Johnson b.1884 Croydon
« Reply #6 on: Friday 23 September 22 08:03 BST (UK) »
Baptism on 15 May 1885 suggests parents are Jesse and Caroline
That is an interesting baptism record with all the crossings out and changing names. It is not clear what the father’s name really is.
I think the mother is Caroline Jane JOHNSON baptised 12 Apr 1868, Pulborough Sussex to Edmund and Caroline JOHNSON.
After 1881 she does not appear with her parents in the census.
She died as Caroline Jane DUKE in 1948 Worthing Sussex.

In 1901 Caroline Jane is living in Croydon as the “wife” of Cresswell DUKE born 1851 Lyminster.
I don’t think they were married.
I believe Cresswell was actually Cecil DUKE who had married Helen Louise MILEHAM in 1877. Helen Louise died in 1924.

In 1901 census – Caroline Jane has three children with her using the surname Duke, but I am not sure who the father is. There is also a 5 month old “visitor” Cyril.
I have found birth registrations for two of the so-called Duke children
CRAVEN, CICEL  GLADYS     Mother: JOHNSON 
GRO Reference: 1889  M Quarter in CROYDON  Volume 02A  Page 222
AND
STEWART, EDMUND  CRESSWELL      Mother: JOHNSON     
GRO Reference: 1889  D Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 660   

Cecil DUKE ("Cresswell") died in Croydon in 1908.

In 1911 Caroline Jane is a widow, now living with her father Edmund again – the child “Dulcie” must be this birth -
DUKE, CAROLINE  MARY            Mother: JOHNSON 
GRO Reference: 1903  D Quarter in CROYDON  Volume 02A  Page 249

Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland)

Offline Steve Hubbard

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Re: Olive Johnson b.1884 Croydon
« Reply #7 on: Friday 23 September 22 14:09 BST (UK) »
Where can I view the baptism record, please?

It also occurred to me that Olive may have lied about her age to get married. Was it still the case then that marriage without parental consent was only allowed from 21 years old? She would have only just turned 21 in May 1905 if she was born in 1884 but if she was born in 1885 then perhaps she was too young to marry legally.

Her death record in 1962 states an age of 76 but she should have been 77 or 78 in that year.

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Olive Johnson b.1884 Croydon
« Reply #8 on: Friday 23 September 22 14:45 BST (UK) »
Olive is living with her grandparents in 1891 census

Her birth registration is June quarter 1885 in Midhurst.

This is the bishops transcript for the baptism. it does not show the crossings out and name changes that the original parish record shows. Parish record is on Ancestry.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DRY7-MS7?i=753

Edit to add snippet of baptism from parish register:
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland)