Author Topic: Grandmother's death confusion  (Read 1523 times)

Offline rob749

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Grandmother's death confusion
« on: Tuesday 27 September 22 16:25 BST (UK) »
Hi Everyone
I'm a bit confused about the attached pension ledger entry ( sorry the first one is upside down, couldn't correct it, and second one is chopped off on RH side), for my uncle who died in WW1 in 1918. It has some alterations in black ink, which indicates that my grandmother was deceased. What I can't figure out is what date these alterations were made, so that I can ascertain when my grandmother died. I haven't been able to find any death or birth records for her so far. The problem I think will be the name unfortunately - Ann Jones nee Evans from Penboyr, Carmarthenshire, West Wales ! I'm 99% sure I have their marriage certificate though. It's quite a common name in Wales as you can guess.

It couldn't have been 1918, as my mother was on a census form in 1921 which stated " Mother Alive" when she was 3 years old. Unfortunately my grandmother wasn't on that census form and my grandfather was listed as married not widower.

Anyway do you think that is a date next to 'Father' in black ink, or just a ledger entry number ? Any help on this appreciated or any idea how to move forward. Thanks.
P.S. the form can be rotated in a pdf viewer.

Offline jim1

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Re: Grandmother's death confusion
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 27 September 22 16:53 BST (UK) »
It looks like the alteration was made on Oct. 5 1938.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline jim1

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Re: Grandmother's death confusion
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 27 September 22 16:58 BST (UK) »
Deaths Sep 1938 
JONES    Ann    66    Carmarthen
Does this look right?
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline rob749

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Re: Grandmother's death confusion
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 27 September 22 18:54 BST (UK) »
Thanks Jim1, are you fairly sure it's a date? I'll try again using that, not even sure where she was living at that time,  last known address in 1911 Neath/Port Talbot, can't find further forward.
Mother's maiden name Oliver may be transcribed as Olwer. 
1938 is also a possibility, thought it might be Newcastle in Emlyn though, but Carmarthen's not far away. On marriage certificate in 1892 age listed as 19 yrs but according to census' records, she would have been 17 yrs, if so birth was in 1874.

An odd thing i noticed on my grandfather's details was on the pension record his name is Richard John Owen Jones, but on census' forms is just John Owen Jones. Finding it a difficult slog to unravel all these details. Thanks for your replies.


Offline jim1

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Re: Grandmother's death confusion
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 27 September 22 20:20 BST (UK) »
The alterations & additions are all in black pen including the 5/10/38 date.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Online shanreagh

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Re: Grandmother's death confusion
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 27 September 22 22:02 BST (UK) »
Thanks Jim1, are you fairly sure it's a date?

Quite a usual form of making a date in Govt Depts or on forms where there is not much room. 

Offline JohninSussex

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Re: Grandmother's death confusion
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 27 September 22 23:24 BST (UK) »

1938 is also a possibility, thought it might be Newcastle in Emlyn though, but Carmarthen's not far away.

Newcastle Emlyn was in Carmarthen registration district in 1938
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/carmarthen.html
Rutter, Sampson, Swinerd, Head, Redman in Kent.  Others in Cheshire, Manchester, Glos/War/Worcs.
RUTTER family and Matilda Sampson's Will:

Offline jonwarrn

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Re: Grandmother's death confusion
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 28 September 22 10:47 BST (UK) »
EVANS, ANNE
Mother's maiden surname: OLIVER     
GRO Reference: 1874  D Quarter in NEWCASTLE IN EMLYN  Volume 11B  Page 19

Possible death? :-\
Sep 1938 Cardiff 11a 305
Jones, Anne
Age 63

Is there an Emrys Gwyn in the family?
1950 electoral register, Penarth Central Ward (Cardiff)
9 Windsor Arcade
Richard Jones
Emrys Gwyn Jones (service voter)
John Thomas
Glenys Megan Thomas

But in 1951 (it is now 9a Windsor Arcade), Richard has gone, and replaced by two Smiths.
Death in 1950
JONES, RICHARD JOHN OWEN    
Age at Death (in years): 82 
GRO Reference: 1950  M Quarter in CARDIFF  Volume 08B  Page 286

Offline rob749

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Re: Grandmother's death confusion
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 28 September 22 16:27 BST (UK) »
Wow Johnw65, you are right on the money, Mum's name was Glenys Megan Thomas, Dad was John Thomas, Emrys Gwyn her brother, and obviously Richard Jones my maternal grandfather they are on the 1921 Census at that address, apart from my father obviously! Not sure why he used Richard, when on the census forms 1921, 1911, and 1901 its just John Owen. Also on every search result I've seen, its always John Owen. Used a different name from the 1930s to avoid something? Very confusing.

I actually lived at that address as a child, and I do remember living there when I was in Junior school, because I remember having an accident with fireworks there, causing a small fire, caused by me I think !
Thats a bit strange, because I was definitely living there up to about age 8 or 9 which would have been 1956-57, but just my parents and I. I don't actually remember my grandfather, which isn't surprising at my age then. As far as I remember 9a was actually next door, so not sure what's going on there.

Also Anne Evans birth and death also looks spot on, the age and detail all adds up according to my documents. Thank you so very much! Been wrestling with this detail for a year or so. Ever so grateful for your time and effort.

I'd tried looking at electoral registers, but could never seem to find the correct one, could you give me a hint as to how you got the information for my future reference. Thanks.

Thanks to everyone ...again. Very grateful.