Author Topic: GRO/BMD record: first name/DOB discrepancies  (Read 1140 times)

Offline jlturpin

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GRO/BMD record: first name/DOB discrepancies
« on: Thursday 29 September 22 07:24 BST (UK) »
Hello!

I have my UK-born ggf's marriage certificate, death certificate, census record, christening records of his children. They all list his first names as Matthew Thomas.

Now I think I found his birth certificate on GRO & BMD, but his first names are listed as Thomas John. And his year of birth is one year different to all the other records (1882 vs 1883).

- Surname is a match
- Mother's maiden name is a match
- Registration district is a match

No record of Matthew Thomas in the GRO/BMD. And no other future records (marriage, death, etc) for a Thomas John. It's like his parents changed his name shortly after he was born.

Is there a legal way to have these records considered as belonging to the same person?

TIA

Offline jorose

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Re: GRO/BMD record: first name/DOB discrepancies
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 01 October 22 02:12 BST (UK) »
Do you have a christening record for him /his siblings?

The year of 1883, does that come from subtracting his age from the year, or is this a date-to-date calculation?
For example, a child born 1 October 1882 would be 8 years old as of the census in 1891, a child born 1 February 1883 would also be 8 years old, and a child born 1 February 1882 would be 9 years old, because the census took place in April of 1891.  So from the census alone you couldn't say if a child was born in 1882 or 1883.

Did he live to 1939? That would mean you can get his exact birth date which would be another point to cross-reference and would be fairly strong evidence if it lines up.

Not sure what you mean by a "legal way" - the biggest slam dunk would be a christening record for Matthew Thomas, taking place after the birth registration, where all other details match up with Thomas John - e.g. this is fairly good proof that he was registered one way and then the parents changed their minds by the time he was christened.
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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: GRO/BMD record: first name/DOB discrepancies
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 01 October 22 04:04 BST (UK) »


What given name/names do you see for the father of your Matthew Thomas?

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Re: GRO/BMD record: first name/DOB discrepancies
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 01 October 22 07:00 BST (UK) »
Please bear in mind that, under English Law, a person has the right to call themselves anything they like.
Just as long as it isn't for purposes of deception or fraud.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)


Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: GRO/BMD record: first name/DOB discrepancies
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 01 October 22 11:23 BST (UK) »
I had a Relative called Joe
Couldn't find his Birth Certificate
Only an Ernest for that year and District and Mother's Maiden Name
Then Relatives told the Saga how as a Kid he hated the Name Ernest so called himself Joe all his Life.
CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

Offline Talacharn

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Re: GRO/BMD record: first name/DOB discrepancies
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 01 October 22 11:33 BST (UK) »
There are plenty of birth registered only with a surname.
I certainly have births registered with one name and at baptism it had changed, often added to.

Offline Rosinish

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Re: GRO/BMD record: first name/DOB discrepancies
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 02 October 22 02:31 BST (UK) »
I have my UK-born ggf's marriage certificate, death certificate, census record, christening records of his children. They all list his first names as Matthew Thomas.

Now I think I found his birth certificate on GRO & BMD, but his first names are listed as Thomas John. And his year of birth is one year different to all the other records (1882 vs 1883).

- Surname is a match
- Mother's maiden name is a match
- Registration district is a match

No record of Matthew Thomas in the GRO/BMD. And no other future records (marriage, death, etc) for a Thomas John. It's like his parents changed his name shortly after he was born.

Is there a legal way to have these records considered as belonging to the same person?
In your opening sentence you have 'census record' (singular), what year does it apply to?...

Have you traced Matthew Thomas/Thomas John back to pre marriage to help with identification?

Have you checked newspapers for John Thomas for anything untoward which may have resulted in him changing his name?

It's not impossible he wasn't registered/record has been ruined/missed on index...

It's worth knowing there are 4 Countries in the UK i.e. stating the Country is always helpful although 'GRO' helped.

What given name/names do you see for the father of your Matthew Thomas?
All/any info. you can provide is beneficial to your research.

What occupation was given for his father?

Are any of his parents deceased at the time of his marriage...where/when?

Do you know of any siblings?

It's worth knowing, if a married woman had an illegitimate child, the surname of the child would be the same as the mother's married surname as that was her 'legal' surname.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: GRO/BMD record: first name/DOB discrepancies
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 02 October 22 02:47 BST (UK) »
I have my UK-born ggf's marriage certificate, death certificate, census record, christening records of his children. They all list his first names as Matthew Thomas.

Now I think I found his birth certificate

- Surname is a match
- Mother's maiden name is a match
- Registration district is a match
Can I ask where you found the maiden surname of his mother to look for a birth entry?

When requesting help it's always an idea to list all known info. with dates/places to help others help you.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline jlturpin

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Re: GRO/BMD record: first name/DOB discrepancies
« Reply #8 on: Monday 03 October 22 05:39 BST (UK) »
Thanks all.

My gggf (Matthew Thomas/Thomas John's father) was also called Thomas. His occupations were recorded as Labourer at 17 and Gardener at 27.

My ggf (Matthew Thomas/Thomas John) is the firstborn, with 3 siblings, whose births are all correctly recorded in GRO with their names they were known by and mother's maiden name.

Now I see his 1883 birthdate is estimated from census records (8yo in 1891 and 18yo in 1901), age at marriage (24) and age at death (41) so the GRO 1882 birthdate works fine! :)

He left England and emigrated with my ggm to South Africa. He was a carpenter. He died before 1939.

Family are adamant his name was Matthew, uncles and cousins have been named after him :)

But I'm positive this 'Thomas John' is the birth certificate for him. I've ordered it. It's so unlikely it could belong to someone else. But I am trying to use this evidence to support a claim to British citizenship (for my mother), so I need it to be irrefutable.

I will start looking for baptism/christening records
Registration district: Penzance
Birthplace: Ludgvan, Cornwall
Ecclesiastical Parish: ST JOHN

Thanks for all your replies.