Phantom birth - Devlin, maybe Dublin

[bugbear]

(this is further to my post https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=860723.0)

I have a John Devlin, whose story from the 1911 Scotland Census onward is well attested.

From his navy reserve service record I have a definite date and place of birth - Dublin, 16 Apr 1872, parents given as John and Sarah.

From his 1931 death certificate (Scottish certificates FTW!) I have his parents as John Devlin (deceased) and Sarah Monteith (deceased).

(crops of both records attached)

This data points clearly to a birth, and a marriage; further "my" John Devlin is likely to be the oldest son, since he has his father's name. The marriage is likely to be within 5 years prior to the 1872 birth.

So armed, I headed to the irish genealogy Civil Records, which should have the marriage and birth.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line.

Nothing.

So - can anyone with more experience of navigating Irish records help me?

[manukarik]

There are lots of John Devlins at around that time. One possible entry (but no parents' names listed):

Name:   John Devlin
Birth Date:   1872
Birth Place:   Ireland
Birth Registration Date:   1872
Birth Registration Place:   Dublin South, Ireland
Volume:   7
Page:   712
FHL Film Number:   101049

[Kiltaglassan]

Name:   John Devlin
Birth Date:   1872
Birth Place:   Ireland
Birth Registration Date:   1872
Birth Registration Place:   Dublin South, Ireland
Volume:   7
Page:   712
FHL Film Number:   101049

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYBY-S4D

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03249/2190872.pdf
MMN  Doyle

[bugbear]

Working off this map;

https://www.irish-geneaography.com/irish-civil-registration-districts.html

It looks like

• Meath
• Kildare
• Dublin
• Wicklow

Are plausible counties for someone who states they were born in  "Dublin".
Working through these in turn for the window 1870-1874 (1872 +- 2 years) in the civil records

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

Nothing for Meath, Kildare, Wicklow.
Dublin gives 3 results, IDs: 7668134, 9241772, 11187830

8 July 1870; John Joseph, born to Hugh Devlin, Ellen Nolan
1 July 1871; John, born to George Devlin, Bridget Hill
18 Feb 1872; John, born to John Devlin, Mary Doyle

All "wrong" for my John Devlin, born to John Devlin and Sarah Monteith.
 

[bugbear]

Searching civil records for John Devlin marriages, 1850-1872 for the whole of Ireland (!!), and "eyeballing" for Sarah, I only find:

Marriage of JOHN DEVLIN and SARAH CAMERON
on 22 November 1867, Lisburn (County Down)

Searching for Sarah Monteith marriages, 1850-1872 for the whole of Ireland:

Marriage of JAMES BOYLE and SARAH MONTEITH
on 08 September 1859, Dublin South

Marriage of JAMES MONTEITH and SARAH MONTEITH
on 21 April 1859, Omagh

Marriage of DAVID BEATTIE and SARAH MONTEITH
on 11 November 1869, Strabane

Marriage of JAMES MCCABE and SARAH MONTEITH
on 13 June 1865 , Bailieborough

[Dundee]

Who was the informant on the death cert and did John DEVLIN not marry?

Debra 

[bugbear]

Who was the informant on the death cert and did John DEVLIN not marry?

Debra 

The informant on the death cert was his son, Joseph Devlin (1906-1980).

John Devlin (1872-1931) lived with Christina Greig Allan (1876-1943), and had 6 children. I haven't found a marriage record for John/Christina.

   BugBear

[Elwyn Soutter]

I had a look at the 1901 Irish census for Sarah Devlin. There are 128.  Not a single one was born in or lived in Dublin or anywhere near it. The vast majority were in the counties of Ulster with just 2 or 3 in Mayo, Sligo & Leitrim. Likewise looking at Sarah Monteith in that census (I realise she wouldn’t be using that name but it gives a hint as to where it was common in Ireland). Just 6. 5 in Ulster and 1 in Wicklow.

I realise you have information pointing to John jrs birth in Dublin but I wonder if his parents were only there briefly, and came from elsewhere in Ireland, most likely one of the Ulster counties?

Be aware that when searching Irish births, if you can't find an expected match,  it’s worth putting in “unknown” as the forename. Many births were registered without a forename, especially if born in hospital and so they need to be included for an exhaustive search. The forename was usually decided later and so doesn’t appear on the birth certificate in many cases. (There are 195,408 births with “unknown” against the forename on the irishgenealogy site).

[bugbear]

Yes - I knew finding the birth might be tricky, but I thought the marriage would be easy, especially as it transpires that "Sarah Monteith" is not common at all.

So my failure to find the marriage is very worrying.