Illegitimate family member help

[fridapablo78]

My paternal grandfather, Keith Payne, was probably illegitimate. His mother, Pamela Payne, classed herself as a widower but we think that was probably not true. It was more likely Keith was an illegitimate child. He was born in December 1921 or 1922. I don't know where I can find any sort of information about his father. It seems very tricky.

They lived in Cornwall in 1939, when he was 17 (that's the only record of a place he lived in childhood I found), so I'm not sure if I should go to Cornwall for records or whether that would be a wasted visit. Keith also lived in Sussex, but he also travelled a lot.

I saw a thing saying sometimes in these cases, there is some sort of financial transaction from the father. Where would I find that out? He also had a younger (maybe half or adopted, unsure?) sister called Mary Rose.

He died (1992 or 1993) before I was born so there was no chance of asking him these questions! Thank you. 😊

[Annie65115]

The dob in the 1939 register was 21 Dec 1922. So, if accurate, Keith's birth could well have been registered in the first 1/4 of 1923.

There are 2 births reg for a Keith Payne in that quarter, and one has the mmn as Payne - which makes it likely that that child was indeed illegitimate. The other has mmn Roots.

There was a death for Keith Payne in Penzance in 1991 - is this your grandfather? His yob was given then as 1922.

Do you know where your grandfather was born?

[fridapablo78]

I think that is him, the death area and date makes sense.
Unfortunately I don't know where he was born. Just that he lived in Cornwall at least partially in his childhood. His mum used the name Payne so I feel like it is likely her as I haven't heard the name Roots.

[Annie65115]

Mind you, Pamela Payne gave her dob as 21 Jan 1902, and there's no birth reg nor appearance on the 1921 census for anyone of that name born around then.

[fridapablo78]

That's strange. I have tried looking myself but there isn't much information on Pamela either. Just the 1939 info. I wonder why that is.

[Cas (stallc)]

FreeBMD - Possible for sister, looks like one name.

Births Mar Q 1939
Payne   Maryrose   mmn Payne   Surrey Mid.E.      2a   256   

Additional note states late entry.  The above transcription represents what is in the GRO index but it is referred to by the following entry:

Births 1935 Sep: Payne, Maryrose, Payne, Surrey M.E.,?

Electrol for Ms Maryrose Payne up to 2004 in Brighton. Looks like never married.

Likely Death - PAYNE, MARYROSE       b1935 
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q1/2005 in BRIGHTON AND HOVE  (4521C)  Reg C15B  Entry Number 208
 
Added: Welcome to Rootschat 

Cas

[Ruskie]

Maybe buying the two birth certificates with mother’s surname Payne will clarify. Eg Pamela might be a middle name.

A DNA test might be helpful to identify matches. Suggest you test the closest relative to your grandfather, such as your parent (his child), or even yourself.

Added: Welcome to rootschat, and don’t go to Cornwall (not yet at least). 

[Neale1961]

There is a death in Brighton East Sussex in 1989 for a Pamela PAYNE
Birth is given as 22 Jan 1903 (a year out with 1939 Reg mentioned above)

[Rosinish]

My paternal grandfather, Keith Payne, was probably illegitimate.
His mother, Pamela Payne, classed herself as a widower but we think that was probably not true.

I don't know where I can find any sort of information about his father. 

What documents/info. do you have for Pamela which state she's a widow?

What info. is on Keith's MC regarding his father's name & occupation?

Is there any significance in your g/f being named Keith...was it a family name (his maternal side) or possibly a clue to the name of his father if he was indeed illegitimate?

Keith is also a surname as well as a forename.

Annie