Author Topic: Different Mother's Maiden Name on multiple siblings' certificates  (Read 1120 times)

Offline Sassenach73

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Different Mother's Maiden Name on multiple siblings' certificates
« on: Tuesday 08 November 22 21:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi All,

I had what I considered to be quite a concise branch of information regarding a great grandfather, Frederick Herbert Manssuer - I had his birth, both his parents and their marriage record, his siblings, all census returns available, and his untimely and rather dramatic demise, burial, the works - until I had a look on GRO for his birth reg,(just to bulk up sources et al and despite finding it already on FindMyPast),  and that of his individual siblings.....and I got rather a shock when I found that, while the first born child, Alfred Mansswer, born 1891, (incorrect spelling on the original doc but definitely one of the siblings), had the expected parents recorded, Christopher Manssuer and his wife Mary Beatrice Martin, the next three children, born in 1894, (Lilian Beatrice Manssuer), 1897 (Albert Christopher Manssuer) and then Frederick himself, 1900,  had the mother's maiden surname listed as Walker - and then, to fully confuse me, the last sibling, born 1908, the mother's maiden surname was again Martin - all of the children had second given names and all appear on census returns together ....I've checked to see if there was any discrepancy with Mary Beatrice's birth, or maybe she had been married before and then divorced etc, but nothing could explain the surname Walker....what other reasons could there be other than possibly an affair, an adoption/surrogacy (I know the latter probably not the case), or did he leave a wife, get with a paramour, then get back with the wife, all between census returns, and the children all lived together??  Beatrice died in 1920 and Christopher DID remarry, to a Martha Tickle...but, again, nothing pops up re the Walker surname - I'm almost positive there will be something right under my nose or obvious to others, or something maybe as simple as, she just went by another name for a while, but I just wanted to see if anyone else had any ideas.  Mary Beatrice Martin's parents were a Robert Martin and an Elizabeth Emma and while there a a few marriages that could fit the bill, I'm no further forward.  Robert was a member of the clergy.  There was a marriage I found that suggested a marriage between a Robert Martin in the North West, to an Elizabeth Staveley (widow), but not much information to go on.  Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Thank you

Michelle

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Different Mother's Maiden Name on multiple siblings' certificates
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 08 November 22 21:28 GMT (UK) »
Marriage in 1889 of Mary Beatrice MARTIN to Christopher James MANSSUER
She is 21, a spinster – her father is William DAVIES, a provision merchant.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Different Mother's Maiden Name on multiple siblings' certificates
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 08 November 22 21:42 GMT (UK) »
Birth registration:
MARTIN, MARY  BEATRICE              Mother: HALL 
GRO Reference: 1869  J Quarter in CHORLEY  Volume 08E  Page 483
   
Baptism at Croston: Mary Beatrice MARTIN
June 11 1869 (born 10 May) parents Robert & Elizabeth Emma MARTIN
Father’s occupation - ? clerk B.A. (not clear)

NOTE: this is a completely different family, and NOT your Mary Beatrice. The 1891 census has this Mary B (single) living with her parents in Barton upon Irwell
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Annie65115

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Re: Different Mother's Maiden Name on multiple siblings' certificates
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 08 November 22 21:44 GMT (UK) »
Marriage in 1889 of Mary Beatrice MARTIN to Christopher James MANSSUER
She is 21, a spinster – her father is William DAVIES, a provision merchant.

The marriage cert does indeed show that. Wedding at St Cleopas, Toxteth Park.

the Mary Beatrice Martin, daughter of Robert and Elizabeth Emma, was bapt in Croston, Lancs, in 1869. The mmn for that child was Hall.

I see that Mary Beatrice (or Beatrice Mary on one occasion) gave her pob in the censuses as Manchester, with a yob around 1869.

I wonder if her father died and her mother remarried a William Davies?


(Neale 1961, you typed faster than me!)
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)


Offline Sassenach73

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Re: Different Mother's Maiden Name on multiple siblings' certificates
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 08 November 22 21:47 GMT (UK) »
Marriage in 1889 of Mary Beatrice MARTIN to Christopher James MANSSUER
She is 21, a spinster – her father is William DAVIES, a provision merchant.

I have absolutely no idea why I have missed this!! I do have covid atm but still -  I did play around with her maiden name after seeing the mother's maiden name on GRO, changing it from Martin to Walker but that was only today and god only knows why I've entered Robert Martin when her father's name is clearly written on her marriage certificate (returning to my partners family tree after a hiatus)...hmmm, I shall take another look at who her Mum may be ...back to the drawing board with her I go lol - Thank you for pointing out what should have been glaringly obvious!   ;D

Offline Sassenach73

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Re: Different Mother's Maiden Name on multiple siblings' certificates
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 08 November 22 21:52 GMT (UK) »
Marriage in 1889 of Mary Beatrice MARTIN to Christopher James MANSSUER
She is 21, a spinster – her father is William DAVIES, a provision merchant.

The marriage cert does indeed show that. Wedding at St Cleopas, Toxteth Park.

the Mary Beatrice Martin, daughter of Robert and Elizabeth Emma, was bapt in Croston, Lancs, in 1869. The mmn for that child was Hall.

I see that Mary Beatrice (or Beatrice Mary on one occasion) gave her pob in the censuses as Manchester, with a yob around 1869.

I wonder if her father died and her mother remarried a William Davies?


(Neale 1961, you typed faster than me!)

I think this is possibly why I inserted the parents as Robert and Elizabeth Emma and I did find them on BMD - on the census return her POB is Manchester.  I think I need to focus now on finding out for certain who Mary's parents were - I've just checked GRO and may have found her .....MARTIN, MARY       MMN: WALKER 
GRO Reference: 1867  J Quarter in BOLTON  Volume 08C  Page 378