Author Topic: Where do I begin?  (Read 4988 times)

Online johnhood

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Re: Where do I begin?
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 23 November 22 18:30 GMT (UK) »
Good evening NorfolkNan, part of your reply earlier today

I know the Isleworth and the Islington connection is true despite some discrepancies because the informant of the couple's deaths was their daughter-in-law who was also their young neighbour in 1891.

Daughter in law presume was Caroline Wetton nee' Murray.

On that census John snr and Ellen have a son Henry aged 12 born London. Have you ever established his birth as this if it was a registered birth should reveal a mother's maiden name.

John
HOOD- STAFFORDSHIRE/LONDON/AUSTRALIA
WALKER-LONDON
HIGGS-LONDON
GOSLING-DEVON

Offline Norfolk Nan

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Re: Where do I begin?
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 23 November 22 18:57 GMT (UK) »
You would think so but nothing as simple. That is the only mention of Henry I have.  My thinking is he was someone they took in for a while, either a relative or a neighbour or stray but like most things with this family thereís little actual evidence.  Youíll notice that Ellen and Henry are both born in London. That doesnít help of course but itís another flexible fact.

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Where do I begin?
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 24 November 22 05:15 GMT (UK) »


You have John LEE, aged 3 years, on Census, 1871.

Who did he marry...where and when.

Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate.

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Where do I begin?
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 24 November 22 06:23 GMT (UK) »
OP:
The 1866 marriage in Cobh looks to be your only documented possibility of a matching John + Ellen Lee in Ireland in the correct time frame. Not only is it the only one, but it is a good match, in terms of what you know about them.

This suggests that your obvious next step should to check the Cobh CofI baptismal register for the birth of a John Lee, ca 1868.  The registers do exist, they are just not online.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex


Offline Norfolk Nan

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Re: Where do I begin?
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 24 November 22 09:52 GMT (UK) »
I agree, and Iím working on it. The Muns are a colourful family, Ellen appears in court many times before her marriage, as does her father, but I canít see anything for her after the marriage. My lot certainly steer clear of courts in England - can leopards change their spots?

Re John jnr's marriage cert - the relevant info is father John Lee, plate layer. 

Update:
Despite a lot of effort I can't add any information to that on the Lee-Muns wedding certificate of 1866.  I can't find any information about Seaman Lee of HMS Achilles, nor Mr and Mrs Lee registering any children in the area of their marriage. I've tracked all Johns born to a John and Ellen in Ireland and Wales and ruled them all out (I've never found one in England).  There's nothing to link (or otherwise) the 1866 couple  to the couple in the 1871 Welsh census other than their names.  I'm not sure where else I can look?




Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Where do I begin?
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 24 November 22 22:00 GMT (UK) »

Update:
Despite a lot of effort I can't add any information to that on the Lee-Muns wedding certificate of 1866.  I can't find any information about Seaman Lee of HMS Achilles, nor Mr and Mrs Lee registering any children in the area of their marriage. I've tracked all Johns born to a John and Ellen in Ireland and Wales and ruled them all out (I've never found one in England).  There's nothing to link (or otherwise) the 1866 couple  to the couple in the 1871 Welsh census other than their names.  I'm not sure where else I can look?

I think you already knew or suspected that John Jr was not registered for quite a while.  So nothing new there. What is new is what I already suggested - you need to research the Cobh parish registers. You haven't looked there.
And there is more to link the Cobh Lees to the Newport ones than just their names: The occupations match  - not unusual for seamen to become dock laborers. And religion also matches.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex

Offline Norfolk Nan

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Re: Where do I begin?
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 24 November 22 22:43 GMT (UK) »
Well, how do I do that if, as you say, they arenít online?  Any ideas? Iím not in Ireland.

The thing is, John is only a dock labourer for one census. Heís a labourer, a boot maker and a plate layer later. I also canít pinpoint the Cork Johnís own birth or match him to seamanís records so Iíve no sure evidence heís Irish.

I really donít want to assume anything, that way lies trouble.

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Where do I begin?
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 24 November 22 23:25 GMT (UK) »
Well, how do I do that if, as you say, they arenít online?  Any ideas? Iím not in Ireland.

The thing is, John is only a dock labourer for one census. Heís a labourer, a boot maker and a plate layer later. I also canít pinpoint the Cork Johnís own birth or match him to seamanís records so Iíve no sure evidence heís Irish.

I really donít want to assume anything, that way lies trouble.

I am not saying they are yours. I am saying they are the only candidates you have to go on at all. So it behoves you to check them out (the Cobh couple).

As for practicalities, well, a Ryanair flight to Dublin is almost certainly a lot cheaper than a British train ticket to just about anywhere....

Or, combined Rail+Sea (ferry) tickets to Dublin are also *much* cheaper than internal British rail tickets. I took the ferry over flying most of the time while I was in Oxford.
https://www.seat61.com/train-and-ferry-to-dublin.htm

So just make a short "holiday" break of it! Its not like its that exotic a destination.

Or get a researcher to look for you..
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex

Offline Norfolk Nan

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Re: Where do I begin?
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 24 November 22 23:33 GMT (UK) »
On the other hand, wouldnít civil registration cover it? Iíve trawled through them all, traced all parents, found two John and Ellenís neither are this couple. Iíve no idea when John left the Achilles but it had left Ireland by 1868 and was, after refit, a guard ship in Portsmouth.