Author Topic: Emily and her brothers 1901  (Read 1920 times)

Offline ajm314159

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Emily and her brothers 1901
« on: Thursday 01 December 22 03:03 GMT (UK) »
Please, could someone help read the surname of Emily and George and John, grandchildren of (my g3 uncle) William Osborne (1834-?)?  They should be children of his daughter Sarah (1859-?).  I have not found her marriage or death; nor her father's.

This is 1901, RG 13/4865, Botchergate, Carlyle.
Malton (London)
Eades (Somerset)
Johnson (Wimborne, East Dorset)
Hopkins (Roxburgh., Yorks.)
Kidd (Westmoreland)
Lake (East Cambridgeshire)

Offline Kay99

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Re: Emily and her brothers 1901
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 01 December 22 04:39 GMT (UK) »
Doherty?? or version of it

Is this the family in 1891??

William   Osborne Gas Works foreman   Warwickshire
Elizabeth   Osborne   62   Butlers Marston, Warwickshire
Emily   Doherty   Granddaughter 16   Apprentice   Northwick, Cheshire
George   Doherty   Grandson 10Scholar   Northwick, Cheshire,
John   Doherty   Grandson   8   Scholar   Carlisle, Cumberland

Kay

Offline Kay99

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Re: Emily and her brothers 1901
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 01 December 22 05:11 GMT (UK) »
The grandchildren with their parents in 1881 - living in Witton, Cheshire ??

George Doherty 38 b Carlisle  Bootmaker
Mary Doherty    31 b Moreton-in the-Marsh Glos
Emily Doherty    6
Leonard Doherty    3
George Doherty  4 months 

On the GRO Birth Index the children's mother maiden name is Greenaway so could this be the parents marriage

Marriages Sep 1873   
George Doherty to Mary Garrid Ford-Greenaway  Carlisle    10b   750   

Kay

Added - George was widowed by 1891 and living in Carlisle with his sister and no children

Offline Kay99

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Re: Emily and her brothers 1901
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 01 December 22 05:22 GMT (UK) »
Just a thought - Could this be a second marriage for William -   and Mary be the daughter of Elizabeth pre this marriage :-\ ??

Marriages Dec 1861 
Greenway    Elizabeth         Stratford    6d   795   
OSBORNE    William         Stratford    6d   795

Kay

Added - the marriage is on FindMyPast and William is listed as 27 a widower and Elizabeth 37 Spinster both of Wellesbourne  where the marriage took place


Offline Kay99

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Re: Emily and her brothers 1901
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 01 December 22 05:40 GMT (UK) »
Mary Ford Greenaway
Baptism Date:    24 Mar 1850   Moreton-In-Marsh, Gloucestershire

Parents William Garrad Ford - Elizabeth Greenaway Abode Cowbrook?? Warwick

Kay

Offline Kay99

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Re: Emily and her brothers 1901
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 01 December 22 09:35 GMT (UK) »
Possible marriage of William Osborne's daughter Sarah  :-\

Marriages Mar 1878  
OSBORNE    Sarah         Carlisle    10b   544     
WINCHESTER    Matthew         Carlisle    10b   544

1891 Living at Presson, Carham, Northumberland
Matthew Winchester   37 b Ford, Northumberland
Sarah Winchester   32 b Coventry, Warwickshire
William S Winchester   13 b Carlisle
Thomas G Winchester 11
Matthew Winchester   8
Frederick Winchester   5

Kay

Offline ajm314159

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Re: Emily and her brothers 1901
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 01 December 22 20:29 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, Kay99!

Census 1891 goodness yes it is.. I wonder that I missed it. There it's clearly written Doherty indeed, but in the 1901 it seems to be something else.  Pronounced “Do’erty” with a sharp glottal stop? Written “Doterty” as a result?

Nice finds.

William was the father of Thomas and Sarah, also Warwickshire, born before the marriage to Elizabeth Greenway in 1861. I don't know who their mother was nor have I found the previous marriage, not for certain.

And now, as it seems,

Elizabeth was the mother of Mary (Greenway) Doherty, and so is the natural grandmother of my Emily, George, and John, and also of Leonard who now must be found.  William is by way of being Mary's stepfather.

Thanks for your help again.
Malton (London)
Eades (Somerset)
Johnson (Wimborne, East Dorset)
Hopkins (Roxburgh., Yorks.)
Kidd (Westmoreland)
Lake (East Cambridgeshire)

Offline Kay99

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Re: Emily and her brothers 1901
« Reply #7 on: Friday 02 December 22 05:14 GMT (UK) »
Glad it worked out.   It is an interesting puzzle

Sadly I think the other sibling Leonard died after the family moved back north
Death Dec 1884 
DOHERTY    Leonard Emmet Age  7    Carlisle 10b   296   

Re William Osbourn's first marriage - I think his daugher Sarah was born in 1858 in Coventry and on the GRO Birth Index her mothers maiden name is listed as Giddens
 OSBOURNE, SARAH        GIDDENS     
GRO Ref: 1858  J Quarter COVENTRY  Volume 06D  Page 357

Possible marriage for William from FreeBMD

Marriages Mar 1856 
Giddins    Ann         Rugby    6d   421   
Osbourn    William     Rugby    6d   421   

And the marriage image is on FindMyPast

9 Jan 1856 Ryton on Dunsmore
William Osbourn 21 Labourer Wappenbury? Father George Osbourn Labourer
Ann Giddins 26 Ryton on Dunsmore Father Samuel Giddens Labourer
One of the witnesses was Hannah Giddens

Possible death for Ann
OSBORNE, ANN     Age 31 
GRO Ref: 1860  D Quarter in RUGBY  Volume 06D  Page 251

Kay

Offline ajm314159

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Re: Emily and her brothers 1901
« Reply #8 on: Friday 02 December 22 13:06 GMT (UK) »
Thank you.

These are surely right, especially with place and combinations of Christian names. Nice finding!

There are two wrinkles. One is the more-than-usual variation in name spelling at this point in time. Osborn, Osbourn, Osborne, Osbourne, Giddens, Giddins. But I see that Anne and William, on the latter’s marriage to Elizabeth, spell their name differently.

The other wrinkle is that I cannot find Thomas Osborne's birth or baptism, or anything else.  Like Sarah he was living with his grandparents in 61 and with his father and stepmother in 71, but after that nothing.  I found two births in the right years (56-57) registered Birmingham, but they are the “wrong” maiden name (not Giddens) and Thomas is supposed to be born in Hunningham, i.e. Coventry, liked his sister.

Too bad about Leonard.

I am descended from William's s sister Anne Osborne (1842-1920) who married William Lake in 1865, settled in West Ham, and bore my mother's grandfather William Osborne Lake there in 1868. The spelling seems to be settled by then, at least when we have used it since as a given name!

Malton (London)
Eades (Somerset)
Johnson (Wimborne, East Dorset)
Hopkins (Roxburgh., Yorks.)
Kidd (Westmoreland)
Lake (East Cambridgeshire)