Ellen Cosgrove/Grindell

[curtainhooks]

Hello, I was wondering if anyone could give advice on something... My great grandmother was adopted between the ages of 4-8 years old: Ellen Cosgrove (b.1896 in West Hartlepool, Durham). Her mother was Mary Elizabeth Cosgrove and her Dad unknown; she also had an older brother: Thomas Samuel Cosgrove (b.1895 in Newcastle). Her mother gave up Ellen but not Thomas, not able to look after both children? Ellen was adopted by the Grindell family who recently lost a baby + were friends of Mary Elizabeth Cosgrove. At the same time Ellen was being given up, a man called Joseph Coulson left his wife and children and began to live with Mary Elizabeth Cosgrove and Thomas Samuel Cosgrove. Joseph and Mary lived together for the rest of their lives.
Is it likely that Joseph was the father of Thomas and or Ellen, or is he just as likely to be as any other man?
Also, I recently ordered Ellen's birth certificate in case Mary Elizabeth put her father down for some reason (she didn't) but she did put that Ellen was born in Throston Workhouse and that she lived in Throston Workhouse, there are not workhouse records for them that I can see, any ideas why she was born there or why there's no record of it?
I have all the censuses for Ellen + Mary but if anyone happens to find anything or could give advice on anything that would be so helpful! (sorry a bit of a long post)

ps. have done a dna test and only a few matches to distant coulsons 

[garstonite]

Was Thomas Samuel born in Benwell,Northumberland in 1894?

Name   Thomas Samuel Cosgrove
Event Type   Christening
Event Date   19 Sep 1894
Event Place   Benwell, Northumberland, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original)   Benwell, Northumberland, England
Sex   Male
Mother's Name   Mary Elizabeth Cosgrove
.........................................
added
1911 census has Joseph Coulson
married aged 40
occupation - steel works
born Slimley ,Yorkshire
.....
Mary Elizabeth Cosgrove
Housemaid - Servant
aged 31
BOARDER
born W/Hartlepool
.................................
Thomas Samuel Cosgrove
aged 17
occupation Timber Yard
BOARDER
................................................
HAVE YOU SEEN THE 1921 CENSUS FOR MARY AND JOSEPH ?
Don't look like a couple in 1911 - house maid and servant .... why not just put Boarder if they were living together as man and wife ??

[amondg]

Did Joseph Coulson live in Newcastle when Thomas was born 1894?

Per census Joseph was living in West Hartlepool 1891 with wife Mary Jane and son John W age 2 months

[Radcliff]

Hello you say there are no records you can see for Throston, have you contacted Teeside archives , to check the creed registers for Mary Elizabeths admittance to the workhouse when she went to give birth to her baby x

[Radcliff]

There is a Thomas Cosgrove aged 7 listed as living in this workhouse, Roman Catholic boys, Jan 27 th 1902, father deceased mother in prison,
Noted from Hartlepool History then and Now web page,

[curtainhooks]

garstonite: yes, I saw that baptism and think it's most likely Thomas, I've only seen him give his birthplace as Newcastle but there's no baptism in Newcastle so this makes sense.
As for them being Housekeeper and Servant on the 1911 census, I'm not too sure why they put that, my only guess would be maybe that because he was still technically married they were being secretive about it? Yes I do have the 1921 census for them, they're ''married'' on this one and apparently had 0 children, for people with a previous marriage would they count those children or is it just between the two now married people? Because if it's none between them then it's more likely he's not the father, but if it's all the children they've ever had then they've just lied anyway.

amondg: yes that's another thing putting me off that Joseph was the dad of Thomas (was in the right area for Ellen though), as he was living in West Hartlepool. But then again, so was Mary Elizabeth on the 1891 census I'm not sure why he was born+baptised there, maybe a clue as to where the Dad of Thomas was at the time?
Annoyingly I can't find Joseph Coulson anywhere on the 1901 census which could maybe help, from the electoral rolls I know he was living with his brother David in 1900 and 1901 but on the actual census there is no Joseph listed in the house with David

Thank you Radcliff, will contact the archives soon and see what I can find. Also thanks for the information about a Thomas Cosgrove in the Workhouse, could be him except I didn't think Mary ever went to prison...