Author Topic: Horton Family - St George in the East  (Read 8086 times)

Offline ResearchJu

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Horton Family - St George in the East
« on: Tuesday 20 December 22 14:06 GMT (UK) »
I'm trying to research my 3rd Great Grandfather Thomas Horton but am struggling to find out much information about him apart from his marriage in 1829 to Matilda Frances Leach at St George in the East, London.  Thomas was a Gun stocker (making the wooden part of the gun).  He had several children Mary Ann Matilda born 1833, Matilda Eliza Horton born 1837, Charles born 1839  and then finally Agnes born in 1840.  By the time his last daughter was born they had moved from St George in the East where all the other children were born or lived (in Mary Ann Street or Lower Berner Street) and were living in Gainsford Street, in Southwark.  I think this means that they had moved to a poorer part of London.  I'm not sure if Thomas went with them as only Matilda and Mary Ann and Agnes were living in Southwark at the time of the 1841 census(the other 2 children had died).  I don't know whether this means that he had died, hit hard times, gone to prison or gone off with someone else.  I can't find a birth record or death record for him despite ordering a couple of death certificates which are not him.  His wife and 2 daughters end up in the Workhouse in 1848. The girls go on to Norwood School but return to the workhouse after it seems their Mother has a baby (John Horton).  John's birth and death certificate (19 days later) reveal Matilda as the Mother but there is no Father's name.   From his marriage certificate I can see the two witnesses were 'Mary Ann Philcox (nee Horton) and her husband.  Was Mary Ann his sister or possibly his Mother?  Mary Ann was born in the Bay of Biscay but on the 1861 census she says she was born in Gibraltar (British Subject) but there are no records on Find my Past or Ancestry to confirm this.  Mary Ann Philcox (married name) married a Gun manufacturer and appears to be quite well off.  I'm now at a dead end and not sure where to search next - any help would be much appreciated.  Thank you.

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Horton Family - St George in the East
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 20 December 22 21:04 GMT (UK) »
I would be inclined to think that Mary Ann was Thomas's mother.  There is a marriage record of a Mary Horton marrying a John Ridley Philcox in 1806 at Newington St. Mary, Surrey.

Thomas married in 1829 so possibly born not long after Mary married John.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Horton Family - St George in the East
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 20 December 22 21:17 GMT (UK) »
Hmm, well there is this death from the GRO

HORTON, THOMAS       27 
GRO Reference: 1838  S Quarter in SAINT SAVIOURS UNION  Volume 04  Page 346

This would give a birth year of 1810 or 1811 depending on when his birthday was.  If this is him it would explain why he is elusive on the 1841.  Would the area of his death have been likely?
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

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Re: Horton Family - St George in the East
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 20 December 22 21:19 GMT (UK) »
Another death that could be possible

HORTON, THOMAS       30 
GRO Reference: 1841  J Quarter in WESTMINSTER  Volume 01  Page 326

You don't indicate which death certificates you obtained so I may have given you ones that you already have.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire


Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Horton Family - St George in the East
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 20 December 22 21:26 GMT (UK) »
Just for information there is a burial record for the Thomas Horton death in 1838.

Buried on 24 July 1838 at Bunhill Fields.  His address at the time was Park Street, Southwark Bridge.  Birth year stated as being 1811 and age 27.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline ResearchJu

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Re: Horton Family - St George in the East
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 08:38 GMT (UK) »
I would be inclined to think that Mary Ann was Thomas's mother.  There is a marriage record of a Mary Horton marrying a John Ridley Philcox in 1806 at Newington St. Mary, Surrey.

Thomas married in 1829 so possibly born not long after Mary married John.

Thank you so much for all your replies.  I'll try and reply to each one individually.  I presumed Thomas was born before their marriage otherwise he would have gone by the name Ridley.  Mary Ann and John Ridley Philcox's first child together was born in 1807 and was called Charles.  I thought Thomas may have taken Philcox's name as well.  I suppose Thomas could have been a nephew of Mary Anns.

Offline ResearchJu

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Re: Horton Family - St George in the East
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 08:47 GMT (UK) »
Just for information there is a burial record for the Thomas Horton death in 1838.

Buried on 24 July 1838 at Bunhill Fields.  His address at the time was Park Street, Southwark Bridge.  Birth year stated as being 1811 and age 27.

I believe this is related to the Death certificate of a Thomas Horton who died on 20th July 1838 so I don't believe this is him.

Online mckha489

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Re: Horton Family - St George in the East
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 09:24 GMT (UK) »
Nov 1849 Agnes (noted as born in December 1840) dau of Thomas & Matilda Horton is baptised at St Saviour, Southwark.
Thomas is recorded as a Labourer. There is no mention of him being deceased.
Address is Adams place.

Is Agnes the one age 10 recorded as an Orphan in 1851, with John Blackwell & family? 

Offline ResearchJu

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Re: Horton Family - St George in the East
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 10:00 GMT (UK) »
Hmm, well there is this death from the GRO

HORTON, THOMAS       27 
GRO Reference: 1838  S Quarter in SAINT SAVIOURS UNION  Volume 04  Page 346

This would give a birth year of 1810 or 1811 depending on when his birthday was.  If this is him it would explain why he is elusive on the 1841.  Would the area of his death have been likely?

Yes I ordered this certificate.  The Horton family had a child in St George in the East in 1839 and and 2 children died there in early 1840 so I think it's a bit early for his death there.  The death certificate details don't seem to connect him to the family.