Author Topic: Missing a marriage certificate and a death certificate, why?  (Read 5623 times)

Offline AmandaC9134

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Missing a marriage certificate and a death certificate, why?
« on: Wednesday 28 December 22 21:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

I am wondering if anyone can help point me in the right direction on two issues please.  I would be hugely grateful for your expertise.

I am tracing back my family tree and I have managed to get back to the 1800s fairly easily but now hitting a problem with my great great great grandfather. 

For my great great grandfather Richard Coates, I have found his birth certificate in 1838 which has father Thomas Coates and mother "Jane Coates, Late Roan, Formerly Boon" in St Mary De Lode Gloucester.   All good.... or so I thought.

Where I am stuck is in 2 respects:

1) I cannot find the marriage certificate of Thomas Coates and Jane Boon/Jane Roan.   The birth certificate of Richard states the mother's name as Jane Coates, so they should have been married.
But I cannot find the marriage certificate of Thomas Coates and either a Jane Boon or a Jane Roan.  I can find Thomas Coates being born, I can find him marrying someone else in 1840, and I can find his death, but I cannot find him marrying a Jane Boon or a Jane Roan.  Does anyone have any ideas why this might be?  Am I doing something wrong?

2) There is a Jane Coates on the "national burial index", an entry for a Jane Coates being buried on 6th Nov 1839, at age 50, quoting her birth year at 1789, in Marshfield in Gloucestershire, taken from the Bristol and Avon Family History Society onto the National Burial Index.  I expected to be able to find a GRO death certificate because the GRO provides basic details of every death recorded in England and Wales since 1837.  However I cannot find a death certificate on GRO website. Does anyone have any ideas why this might be?   Is there anywhere else that I can get further information?

So it looks like poor Jane died a year after giving birth to Richard Coates and this makes sense as the Census entries I can find in 1841 show Thomas the Father and Richard the son living together.  By 1851 the census then show Thomas the Father and Richard the son living together with a new wife called Mary and I was able to find that marriage certificate.  The missing pieces are the two elements above.

I apologise if my questions are quite basic, I would much appreciate your help

Many thanks


Offline mckha489

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Re: Missing a marriage certificate and a death certificate, why?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 28 December 22 23:11 GMT (UK) »
Not what you are asking for, but..

Marriage at Hempstead, Gloucestershire.

William ROAN of this parish and Jane BOON of this parish
by Banns 14th February 1823
William signed, Jane made her mark
Witnesses John Roan, signed. And the mark of Charlotte - can’t tell if it is ROAN or BOON :-(

Offline jorose

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Re: Missing a marriage certificate and a death certificate, why?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 28 December 22 23:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi there and welcome to Rootschat.

For 1), given the timing of Richard Coates' birth, it's fairly likely that the marriage was in a parish church. Do you know where Thomas originated from?
The wording, "late Roan, formerly Boon" normally means that she was born Jane Boon, then married a Roan, then married Richard Coates, so the 1823 marriage previously found would possibly make sense.

For 2), this age seems off for your Jane if she gave birth in 1838, especially as judging by the 1851 census your Thomas was born around 1811. It's possible the death took place elsewhere and/or was registered under a different name.

While trying to see if I could find the first marriage I noticed this interesting baptism for a Richard "Roan", mother Jane.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVLT-TFK

There's no matching birth for him.
Other interesting things - there's a 5 year old "Mary" Coates in the 1841 census with Richard and Thomas:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7MX-2T4

Again, I cannot find a baptism under Coates, but there is an illegitimate baptism under "Roan" , mother Jane, no father:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWDJ-B57

This child sadly died in 1842 aged 7.

I think Jane's death might be the Jane Rone died in September 1839 quarter.  From https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp she was aged 37.

I would try getting the 1839 death certificate to see who the informant is and the address. It's quite possible they only had a common law marriage (no legal ceremony).
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Offline maddys52

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Re: Missing a marriage certificate and a death certificate, why?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 29 December 22 00:02 GMT (UK) »
Hello and welcome to RootsChat from me too.


2) There is a Jane Coates on the "national burial index", an entry for a Jane Coates being buried on 6th Nov 1839, at age 50, quoting her birth year at 1789, in Marshfield in Gloucestershire, taken from the Bristol and Avon Family History Society onto the National Burial Index. 

An image of the parish register is on Ancestry. It has the same details: Jane COATES, bu 6 Nov 1839, abode - Marshfield, aged 50.

I can't find an entry on the GRO either for this death, which presumably should be in the Chipping Sodbury registration district.

I suspect that jorose is correct and this is not "your" Jane.


Offline maddys52

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Re: Missing a marriage certificate and a death certificate, why?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 29 December 22 00:04 GMT (UK) »
The Jane RONE who was buried 23 July 1839 at St Mary De Lode aged 37 was of Barton St Mary.

Offline mckha489

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Re: Missing a marriage certificate and a death certificate, why?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 29 December 22 00:09 GMT (UK) »
Hello and welcome to RootsChat from me too.


2) There is a Jane Coates on the "national burial index", an entry for a Jane Coates being buried on 6th Nov 1839, at age 50, quoting her birth year at 1789, in Marshfield in Gloucestershire, taken from the Bristol and Avon Family History Society onto the National Burial Index. 

An image of the parish register is on Ancestry. It has the same details: Jane COATES, bu 6 Nov 1839, abode - Marshfield, aged 50.

I can't find an entry on the GRO either for this death, which presumably should be in the Chipping Sodbury registration district.

I suspect that jorose is correct and this is not "your" Jane.

I also cannot see an entry in the GRO for the two entries in the PR after Jane. ie Polly Hopkins December 10th  age 41, and Martha Davis age 79. December 28th.  I looked for them all in the first quarter of 1840 too.  (In the Chipping Sudbury district).

The Next entry - Jane LONG, January 5th age 27 IS there.

Offline maddys52

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Re: Missing a marriage certificate and a death certificate, why?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 29 December 22 00:34 GMT (UK) »
Pure speculation here - perhaps William ROAN (who married Jane BOON) had not died and so she was not free to marry Thomas COATES. I can't see a suitable death for a William ROAN in the time frame.

There are 2 William RONEs baptised at Hempstead in 1802 - 9 May 1802 son of John and Betty; and same day William Vaughan RONE son of Thomas and Ann. William Vaughan is easy to find subsequently. He married Ann COLEMAN in 1827, and Georgiana HART in 1847. He was a butcher.

However, to add to complication, William ROAN, son of John, was also a butcher was in trouble with the law in Oct 1823 for threatening and ill treating his father. If this is th ehusband of Jane, I wonder if he was of a violent nature might be a reason why Jane may have left him. Again, pure speculation.

Offline maddys52

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Re: Missing a marriage certificate and a death certificate, why?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 29 December 22 00:38 GMT (UK) »
I can't see a suitable death for a William ROAN in the time frame.


Although there is this burial on 1 March 1831 at Goucester St Nicholas - William ROAN "extra parochial".  :-\

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Missing a marriage certificate and a death certificate, why?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 29 December 22 05:14 GMT (UK) »


"For my great great grandfather Richard Coates, I have found his birth certificate in 1838 which has father Thomas Coates and mother "Jane Coates, Late Roan, Formerly Boon" in St Mary De Lode Gloucester.   All good.... or so I thought."

Is there a date and location for the birth?

When and where was the birth registered?

Who registered the birth?.........who is the informant?