Author Topic: SMITH family of bargemen from Cold Waltham/Thakeham Sussex  (Read 1163 times)

Offline RayGloster

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SMITH family of bargemen from Cold Waltham/Thakeham Sussex
« on: Thursday 29 December 22 09:06 GMT (UK) »
I am trying to confirm a connection between my wife's great grandmother Sarah Ann Smith, who was born in East Grinstead, Sussex and a family of bargemen from Cold Waltham, Sussex.

This Smith family, Charles and Maria with 5 children were at Hardham, Sussex in 1851 then with 9 children at Thakeham, Sussex in 1861. In 1861 all the children, except the eldest and youngest daughters, were listed as bargemen. One of these children was Samuel whose birth was registered in 1846 in Thakeham, the same location as the other children .

Obviously, the surname Smith does not help. I have found a record which supports my theory but need to fill in a few gaps before I feel more certain of the connection.

Before Sarah's first marriage in East Grinstead in 1902 there were no easily identifiable census records for her. The 1911 census, when she was in household of her husband George Leonard Glew, gave East Grinstead as her place of birth, so I located a birth registration: Registration District East Grinstead, Page 154, Volume 2B,  Line No. 110, Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar, Year 1881.

In the 1881 census at Farnborough, Hampshire, I found a Sam Smith aged 35 from Sussex, together with his wife Louisa 25, sons Sam 11 and Charlie 8 as well as a daughter Sarah aged 0, all born in Sussex. Sam is listed as a gypsy, with no occupation.

The gypsy label tends to link with bargeman origins.
The location was close to the Blackwater River and the Basingstoke Canal.
Sarah's age 0 on census day 3 April 1881 matches BRI from East Grinstead.
Sarah Ann named one of her daughters Louisa Smith Glew, potentially after her own mother.

And tips or further information would be gratefully received.

Offline Darnity

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Re: SMITH family of bargemen from Cold Waltham/Thakeham Sussex
« Reply #1 on: Friday 30 December 22 17:21 GMT (UK) »
Have you had a look at the material at the Canal And River Trust:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/refresh/media/thumbnail/42205-research-family-history-booklet.pdf

Gypsy DRAPERs, children of Billy and Mary - Ellen,Darnity,Spencer,Billy Jnr,Kisby,Ellick
Descendants of Fred and Esther (Garrett) WHITLOCK - Wavendon, Woburn Sands area
Descendants of George and Barbara (Willis) SUTTON - Earls Barton and Nether Heyford
BISSELL - Hanslope, New Bradwell, Bucks and Aston, Birmingham area
Lavinia DRAPER died 1840 Cranfield
Gypsies in the Bow Brickhill and Beds/Bucks border areas

Offline CaroleW

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Re: SMITH family of bargemen from Cold Waltham/Thakeham Sussex
« Reply #2 on: Friday 30 December 22 23:27 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat

First question - do you have Sarah's marriage cert showing her fathers name and occupation?

The 1881 birth registration you mention links to a mothers maiden name of Gibb

Name:                      Mother's Maiden Surname:
SMITH, SARAH  ANN      GIBB     
GRO Reference: 1881  M Quarter in EASTGRINSTEAD  Volume 02B  Page 154
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline CaroleW

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Re: SMITH family of bargemen from Cold Waltham/Thakeham Sussex
« Reply #3 on: Friday 30 December 22 23:38 GMT (UK) »
You say Sam & Louisa Smith were in Farnham in 1881 - there is this marriage

Marriages Dec 1880   
KIRCHER    Louisa         Farnham    2a   159    
SMITH    Samuel         Farnham    2a   159

Louisa is not old enough to be the mother of Sam jnr & given the gap between Charlie & Sarah I suspect Sam was previously married
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)


Offline CaroleW

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Re: SMITH family of bargemen from Cold Waltham/Thakeham Sussex
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 31 December 22 00:19 GMT (UK) »
A tree on Ancestry shows George as Glue - 1881 census is Glue but parents marriage is Glew

Births June qtr 1874
George Leonard Glue      Midhurst 2b 377

Marriages Sep 1857   

Glew    Thomas        Midhurst    2b   460     
Shepherd    Mary     Midhurst    2b   460

I really think you need to buy the 1902 marriage cert to confirm her fathers name & occupation
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline RayGloster

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Re: SMITH family of bargemen from Cold Waltham/Thakeham Sussex
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 08 January 23 13:20 GMT (UK) »
Have you had a look at the material at the Canal And River Trust:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/refresh/media/thumbnail/42205-research-family-history-booklet.pdf

Thank you, I had looked at the website to see if I could make any sense of the network in Sussex and Surrey, but did not come across that booklet.

Offline RayGloster

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Re: SMITH family of bargemen from Cold Waltham/Thakeham Sussex
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 08 January 23 13:31 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat

First question - do you have Sarah's marriage cert showing her fathers name and occupation?

The 1881 birth registration you mention links to a mothers maiden name of Gibb

Name:                      Mother's Maiden Surname:
SMITH, SARAH  ANN      GIBB     
GRO Reference: 1881  M Quarter in EASTGRINSTEAD  Volume 02B  Page 154

Thank you. I do not have the marriage certificate, so I may have to splash out and order it.

I did not have Sarah Ann's mother's maiden name from birth registration records that I had found. So I can now research the Gibb family connection and see what that uncovers.

I already had all the Glue/Glew information. Workhouse records from the 1940's for my wife's uncle  spelt it as Glue, but typically the family spelt it as Glew.

I will have to look further at the Sam Smith/Louisa Kircher records.

Offline RayGloster

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Re: SMITH family of bargemen from Cold Waltham/Thakeham Sussex
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 08 January 23 15:45 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat

First question - do you have Sarah's marriage cert showing her fathers name and occupation?

The 1881 birth registration you mention links to a mothers maiden name of Gibb

Name:                      Mother's Maiden Surname:
SMITH, SARAH  ANN      GIBB     
GRO Reference: 1881  M Quarter in EASTGRINSTEAD  Volume 02B  Page 154

I have now been able, with a high degree of certainty, to discount any connection of Sarah Ann Smith to the bargemen from Sussex.

The name of Gibb, turned out to be Gibbs in other records. The mother's forename was Louisa and had married a Henry Smith, labourer from Wales, in 1880 in Lingfield, Surrey, just across the county border from East Grinstead. A search for records relating to Surrey uncovered the family in 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses in various locations.

So thank you so much Carole. The starting point of of the mother's maiden name was of immense help.