Author Topic: Birth Record Accuracy  (Read 4413 times)

Offline CaptainChaos

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Birth Record Accuracy
« on: Wednesday 07 September 05 08:30 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Can anyone comment on the accuracy of records downloaded from Scotlands People?  I'm aware that they are only as good as the information given by the people at the time, however there are some possible inconsitencies that I need some help with.

I'm looking into the origins of an ancestor of mine (John Ford) who would have been born somewhere around 1826 in Scotland. 

The only record I have of his birth year/place was that it was noted on his daughters birth registry (downloaded from Scotlands People), and that at the time of her birth on the 9th August 1855, he was 29 years old and had been born in Benholm, Kincardineshire. 

A search of the LDS website shows that a John Ford was born to James Ford and Elizabeth Davidson in Benholm on 6th October 1827 (which on 9/8/1855 would have made him 28).  However, Scots tradition usually held that children were named for their forebears by incorporating their surnames into their childrens names.

What's got me confused is that the John Ford I'm interested in had a son called William Falconer Ford - the LDS site shows that a John Ford was born to John Ford and Elizabeth Falconer in St Cyrus (8 miles away from Benholm) on 28th November 1825, which would have made this person 29 on 9/8/55.

So, in terms of age (and possible naming links), the second looks likely (although he's 8 miles away from his named birthplace), whereas the first John Ford is in the right place but not the right age - any thoughts, please??

Thanks in advance!!

Rob

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Re: Birth Record Accuracy
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 20 September 05 03:08 BST (UK) »
Hi Rob

I would say Scotland's People is as accurate as you could hope to get, as the records are direct from source, often you are able to view the original entries.
If anything, it is LDS which is more prone to error. WHich is not to say, incorrect information is in Scotlands People, but I would say it would mostly be because incorrect information was given as opposed to incorrectly transcribed.

Yes, Scots very often included surnames of their parents in the names of their own children. And not only that, they adhered very often to the traditional naming patterns for the first names of their children  - 1st son after father's father etc etc.
John FORD & Ann MARNIE married June 1848, first son on LDS is John in apr 1851 - I wonder if there was an earlier son conveniently named James who is not on LDS...... :P

The James FORD/Elizabeth FALCONER marriage is not the only FORD/FALCONER marriage on LDS for Kincardine -  there is also:
David FORD & Ann FALCONER in St Cyrus, having children in the 1820's also - poss. 2 brothers amrried 2 sisters.
David FORD & Elizabeth FALCONER in St Cyrus having 1 child in 1840

I have also come across middle surnames of children being the married surname of a sibling.

Also,  John FORD/Ann MARNIE also had children with middle name "Brown" and "Mitchell" as well as "Falconer", and "Fielding" (which you know is after John's wife Ann Feilding MARNIE)

You also have one other clue:
The John FORD you mention as born 6 Oct 1827 to John FORD & ELizabeth DAVIDSON was actually named John Liddell FORD on LDS.
There  is this on FREECEN (John Liddell had a brother James born 1837, so I'm sure this is them). What I am unsure of is the name of the Head of the house - is it really DAVIDSON 0r is it FORD and he has been transcribed by his wife's maiden name? Are these parents & children or Grandparents & grandchildren. The one clue perhaps is the location of Johnshaven - to file away  if you find reference to your John in that place?

Piece: SCT1841/253 Place: Benholm-Kincardineshire Enumeration District: 7
Civil Parish: Benholm Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 7 Page: 5
Address: Johnshaven
    Surname   First name(s)   Sex   Age   Occupation   Where Born
       DAVIDSON   James   M   41   Linen Hand Loom Weaver    Kincardineshire         
    DAVIDSON   Betty   F   45       Kincardineshire         
    FORD   John   M   13   Linen Hand Loom Weaver    Kincardineshire         
    FORD   James   M   4       Kincardineshire     

And maybe a silly question, but are you absolutely sure John FORD's age is 29 on his daughter Elizabeth's birth cert - could it be a hard to dechipher 27? WHich is the age John Liddell FORD, son of James FORD & ELizabeth DAVIDSON  would have been in Aug 1855......

Thinking but not a lot of help, sorry  :D
Cheers
Ambly


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline CaptainChaos

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Re: Birth Record Accuracy
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 20 September 05 07:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Ambly,

thanks for your help - unfortunately with the records downloaded from Scotland's People, they are very often hard to decipher due to various reasons (in this case when the birth record of John Ford and Ann Marnie's daughter was scanned, John's age was partially obscured by the facing page) but it's entirely possible that it could be 27 and 29, so I'll take another look! 

Interestingly, although John and David were the only two living children at the time, on Elizabeth's birth record it mentions two un-named Ford children who had died previously (a boy and a girl) so it's possible that they died before John was born (i.e pre-1851), in which case being the eldest son before he died, he may well have been named James (although I've not yet been able to find any records of them).

Something else that has been suggested is that I should order John and Ann's marriage record from Scotlands People as well as the birth records  the Ford/Davidson John and the Ford/Falconer John as they're all pre-1850 - hopefully this will provide a definitive answer!

Once again, thanks for all of your help

Kind Regards,

Rob

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Re: Birth Record Accuracy
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 20 September 05 18:18 BST (UK) »
Hi Rob

You might like to read this topic - re: a Rootschatter's (positive) experience when after complaining to ScotlandsPeople regarding unreadable images:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,77198.0.html

Also has some very informative data about the site.

Re: the FORDs yes I would definitely get the FORD / MARNIE marriage as it may give you the answers or at least some clues - Have you asked for a 51 or 61 lookup in Census? You might find other family members with he & Ann - ie a parent still living or a sibling.

BTW - Ann's sister Elizabeth who married DOIG (cf: the DOIG neices on Census 81 with Ann) - she is mentioned on this  site  if you haven't seen it:
http://www.doig.net/JOHN1778.html

Good luck!

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)


Offline Little Nell

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Re: Birth Record Accuracy
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 20 September 05 22:27 BST (UK) »
This may not prove as simple as it sounds due to the relatively common name, but if you look for and find the death certificate of the person you know to be the correct John Ford (i.e. married to the correct person), then that will give you his parents' names, including his mother's maiden name if known by the person registering the death.  (I've only found one so far where this was not known - someone else will probably now prove me wrong!)

Good luck

Nell
All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline CaptainChaos

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Re: Birth Record Accuracy
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 21 September 05 07:57 BST (UK) »
Hi Nell/Ambly,

thanks very much to the both of you for your help! 

Unfortunately John died at sea c1865 and, despite my best efforts so far on most websites (Scotlands people, etc) I've not yet been able to track down any death records for him.

Still, Genealogy research is never easy (which makes it that much more interesting!)

Thanks again!

Rob

Offline WILLIAM 1

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Re: Birth Record Accuracy
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 25 March 06 18:06 GMT (UK) »
i had my gggreatgrandfather was born in cupar angus forfar scotland so what i did was send an e.mail and acopy of the certificate to the local town hall in cupar angus forfar and asked them to help me and i got an e.mail back with all the information that i wanted. i do that with every certificate that i have. i have sent them to dundee, st andrews, maybole in ayr , wigtown , and i have had e.mail from everyone of them. as for names, my father was william. his dad was william.his dad was william, his dad was joseph, and his dad was joseph, and as you say on one of the birth certificates i have joseph born 1855, and on his marriage certificate he was age 28.so if you count back then he was born on 1854. you just have to live with it. i have asked my local town hall and they told me that this is right. and joseph's wife on her birth certificate it has her last name as mclinton and on her sons birth certificate it is mcclintin and on her marriage certificate it is mclintock. and i got told it was the people in the register office at the time that was to blame. i got all my certificates from scotlandpeople.com. but i went to edinburgh and all the certificates are the same . i hope this helps you
brown family mcclinton (and variants), mcfarlane, buchanan,murray,caskie(and variants) hay family. mcpherson family.mckenzie.whiteside.nichol

Online Forfarian

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Re: Birth Record Accuracy
« Reply #7 on: Monday 27 March 06 20:32 BST (UK) »
Unfortunately John died at sea c1865 and, despite my best efforts so far on most websites (Scotlands people, etc) I've not yet been able to track down any death records for him.

Why not look for the death of the other John Ford, and see who his parents were? This should settle at least part of the question:)
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Liviani

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Re: Birth Record Accuracy
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 28 June 18 20:09 BST (UK) »
On the slim chance anyone is still researching this family..

My 4x g-grandfather was a David Ford born 1794 - Aberlemno, Forfarshire to John Ford and Isobel Spence.
David Ford married Ann Falconer (1798 - 1874).

David Ford had a brother named John b.1792, Aberlemno. John Ford jnr married Ann Falconer's sister, Elizabeth b.1803, St Cyrus.

So the John Ford who married Elizabeth Falconer, is not the same man as the son of James Ford and Elizabeth Davidson.
mtDNA subclade K1b2b. Father's Y-DNA I-S25383
GEDmatch kit; CF7867455
Father's kit; RY1336515
Mother's kit; AF2312865


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie.
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Elder, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott.
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie