Drummond (Drumm)

[Dundee]

In the birth registration of their daughter Frances Alice, his wife's name is Frances Mary Chappell.

I think she was illegitimate - father CHAPEL, mother REES, which is why she used both names.

Debra 

[Neale1961]

Is this all the same James Drum, or are there 2 men with the same name?

James DRUMM in foot police in Sth Aust in 1879
Sth Aust Newspaper has him discharged on 31st Aug 1881

NSW Police service record has James DRUMM (Born Ireland 1853) appointed 3 Oct 1881
NSW Police gazette has James dismissed Feb 1882

[sparrett]

Is this all the same James Drum, or are there 2 men with the same name?

James DRUMM in foot police in Sth Aust in 1879
Sth Aust Newspaper has him discharged on 31st Aug 1881

NSW Police service record has James DRUMM (Born Ireland 1853) appointed 3 Oct 1881
NSW Police gazette has James dismissed Feb 1882

The same thought occurred to me and then I wondered if he simply moved from one police force in SA to the other in NSW and nobody actually checked his standing records.
We know these things happen (still)

So we see a change of birthplace and age in NSW from the SA records- making himself a tiny bit younger of course

Still not performing well and is again dismissed.

Did he then head of to Trangie to be an assistant at the postal service there. Perhaps  he was literate, an  advantage to employment  in rural parts in those times. 

Just thoughts really.

Sue

[maddys52]

Yes, I was thinking along similar lines. Also, just because Frances says she is a widow, or her children do, doesn't necessarily mean he died. He may have left the family. 

[sparrett]

A bit more digging.....

I think the post office employee chap is not the same man as the policeman.
 Here he has one 'm' to his surname and a middle name (Matthew).

Therefore not the person of interest.

This is a lengthy 1920 account of one his retirement gatherings. He leaves the role of Harden Post Master and  moves on to Sydney.

Worth a read to see if others agree with me.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/214461234

Here is the probable death of the Postal man in NSW-
DRUM James Matthew
23151/1954
Father JOHN
Mother ESTHER JANE
At HAY

And his mother referred to in the item-
DRUM Esther Jane
18314/1942
Father James Edward
Mother Ann Jane
At HAY

Sue

[donna.cav]

Hi All,

Wow, thanks for all your input! My post went a little quiet for a while so I assumed it got lost somewhere in the internet and forgot about it! I've now changed my tree to 'public'.

For clarity, Arthur J Drummond is my g.great grandfather (my grandfather is Brian Drummond, as per the family tree).

I have since obtained a few additional records from GRO gov UK:
- James Drumm. (24y) and Frances Rees' (21y) marriage certificate Marylebone, Middlesex London - m. 12 Jun 1872. James' profession listed as Police Constable D. Division (Marylebone). Residence at marriage 22 John Street North, both Frances and James. Fathers James Drumm (deceased, carpenter), and John Rees (deceased, stone-mason).
- Arthur James Drumm. b. 11 Oct 1872 matching the details above incl. address.
- James Drumm's Policing joining date 13 Nov. 1971 (D division), and then it appears that he has joined the police force upon his arrival in 1879 in SA.
- Frances Drumm.'s hospital records in SA 1887 record her as widowed (so it would appear James' death was before '87), arrived on Salisbury ship 9 yrs prior (i.e. 1879).
- Arthur J Drumm's hospital records confirm his birth in London, arrival on Salisbury.
- Arthur J Drumm's marriage certificate has James Drumm (his father) listed as Drummond. I believe it is Drumm (with two m's), an abbreviated version of Drummond (my Mum's maiden name).

To clarify other details:
- James Drumm has been confirmed as Roman Catholic.
- I'm not convinced James' parents were James and Margaret Orr, as I have followed through these details which do not match with my James Drumm.
- it's hard to know whether James 'abandoned' his family to move interstate. I haven't found him on the records of abandoning wife and children, though doesn't exclude the possibility. I believe there were other James Drummond's in both Vic and NSW, which don't appear to match my records. I can't remember how I came to this conclusion, but its always possible I've overlooked something.

To complicate matters further, there has been a story passed down that either my g.great or g.g.great grandmother was 'asian', specifically a woman who married a drummond (though not confirmed at this stage) in my direct lineage. We had no reason to doubt this as the Drummond's had obvious Asian facial features. My Mums DNA test has since confirmed approx. 7% Chinese decent. We'd love to know more about where this fits in, but we're really stuck with this too. Any thoughts?

I think she was illegitimate - father CHAPEL, mother REES, which is why she used both names.

I wonder whether this is where the Chinese DNA fits in?

The only details I have not officially confirmed with records is James Drumm.'s DOB as 5 Feb 1851, which I found in the BISA. There seems to be about a 5 yr discrepancy in their recorded birth year with that of his marriage record, but have connected these records through other details. Other than that, I generally try to find official records rather than borrowing from other family trees as it's easy to get it wrong.

Thanks again!