Author Topic: Testament Dative - need help deciphering a few words  (Read 161 times)

Offline Zacktyr

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Testament Dative - need help deciphering a few words
« on: Wednesday 25 January 23 02:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I have 99% of a Testament Dative transcribed but I am stumped by several words throughout the body of the Will.

I have added screenshots of various sections and have highlighted the troublesome words with yellow.  Time is 1666. 

The first jpg you will have to scroll to the far right to see the two words highlighted.  The same with the third jpg, but only one word is highlighted.  The fourth jpg has two words in view but to see the third word highlighted you will have to scroll to the far right.

Any help deciphering these words is greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Offline GR2

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Re: Testament Dative - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 25 January 23 12:22 GMT (UK) »
1: the saxtin [=sixteenth] day of Nor [= November]

2: sax ky yong & old [= six cows young and old]

3: I c xxvi lib [= 126]

4: sax fowlls pryce of the peice therof or heid iiii s Inde xxiiii s [six fowls price of the piece thereof or head 4/- hence 24/-]

4: of teind meill [= of teind meal - this is the teind [= tithe] oatmeal due to the minister]

Offline Zacktyr

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Re: Testament Dative - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 25 January 23 18:29 GMT (UK) »
Hello GR2,

Thank you so much for those interpretations.  Your reply is very helpful and I appreciate it greatly.  For the life of me I could not see, especially, the "yong" word.  To me it looked like 'prong', which, of course I couldn't find an interpretation of in any dictionary.  Thank you, again.

I have one more set of two words - I think the third word is a repeat of the word above.  Would you be kind enough to take a look at these for me.
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Offline GR2

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Re: Testament Dative - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 25 January 23 19:14 GMT (UK) »
and if neid beis [= needs be] to call and persew therfor becaus he hes [= has] mad [= made] forth as use is and fund [= found] ca[tio]nner as law will as ane act mad [= made] therupon beirs [= bears] give[n] at Glasgow the twentie eight day of febry 1666 yeirs The qlk [= quhilk = which] day compeirit [= officially appeared] Wm Barbour In Louriesbank and is become actit bund [= bound] and obleist [= obliged] as ca[tio]nner for John barbour

The highlighted word is an abbreviation of cationner, ie cautoner - a person who stands caution/acts as surety for another person.


Offline Zacktyr

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Re: Testament Dative - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 25 January 23 20:46 GMT (UK) »
Hello GR2

Once again, thank you so very much for your assistance.  I could decipher "canner" but, again, couldn't find any dictionary that would lead me in the right direction.  The remainder of your transliteration has also helped sort out who I thought was a witness but is really "in Louriesbank".  The old Scots language certainly is a challenge.  Thank you, so much.
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Offline GR2

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Re: Testament Dative - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 25 January 23 22:22 GMT (UK) »
As this is a testament dative, you will not find witnesses as such. You will only find them in a testament testamentar (a testament that includes an actual will and not just an inventory).

You might find this useful when looking for words. You can search for ones before or after 1700.

https://dsl.ac.uk/

Offline Zacktyr

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Re: Testament Dative - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 26 January 23 17:41 GMT (UK) »
Hello GR2

Thank you for the link to the Dictionaries of the Scots Languages.  I had checked the pre-1700 dictionary before I posted, but I find that words that are contractions are not represented, e.g. 'canner'.  It would be great if there was a dictionary that contained the word contractions! 

In this particular Testament Dative there are three individuals who have signed their names as "witness" and were referred to in the body of the document as witnesses.  What precisely they were witnessing is not clearly stated.
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Offline GR2

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Re: Testament Dative - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 26 January 23 17:45 GMT (UK) »
You could always post more bits  if you aren't sure about it.

Offline Zacktyr

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Re: Testament Dative - need help deciphering a few words
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 26 January 23 17:54 GMT (UK) »
Hello GR

Thank you so much for your offer of posting more.  I have managed to complete the Testament Dative with yours' and others' generous assistance.

I'll be tackling a Testament Testamentar from 1604 next and will likely need additional help.  The copy is a little blurry.
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE