Author Topic: Burial/Cremation in Fife 1942 - Information sought  (Read 1118 times)

Offline diane747

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Re: Burial/Cremation in Fife 1942 - Information sought
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 08 February 23 01:22 GMT (UK) »
Further Note/Correction - scotmum I have just realised that the (N) before the name Nelly relates to the Nether Street Burial Ground. The Monumental Inscriptions are for Pathhead Churchyard 1733 - 1975 and Nether Street Burial Ground 1725 - 1935.
Helen/Nellie was buried in 1942, so unfortunately that rules that out. Back to the drawing board. :(

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Burial/Cremation in Fife 1942 - Information sought
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 08 February 23 03:01 GMT (UK) »
   
One of my own wonderings was, in a time where there were lots of infectious diseases and my grandmother died with pneumonia in the 'Fever Hospital', whether cremation may have been common practice for people dying at the Fever Hospital...? 
It would be worth emailing both Dunfermline & Kirkcaldy Crematorium to enquire.

You do need to know details of any possibilities in the absence of any death details for a burial/cremation.

I have a similar situation pending myself, both husband & wife died in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, 1974 (7 mnths apart), same address, no details (yet) of an Obit but I have both death certs. & their burials haven't been found.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline diane747

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Re: Burial/Cremation in Fife 1942 - Information sought
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 08 February 23 03:16 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Annie, I will look into getting email addresses for the crematoriums you suggest and enquire with them. Given there has been no card raised by the Fife Council, it is a possibility she may have been cremated.  I would have thought the family would have been aware of that but we make lots of assumptions.
Diane

Offline dowdstree

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Re: Burial/Cremation in Fife 1942 - Information sought
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 08 February 23 09:39 GMT (UK) »
Diane 747 - I have been following your post with interest and the replies/help you have received from others.

Just a point I would like to make about Fife Council not having a card for Helen. I do not know when it happened but the Churches with Graveyards used to be responsible for keeping burial records themselves. At some point this changed and the records were handed over to the Council. Could it be that Helen's record was "lost" somewhere along the line? A possibility.

I have a family member who died in 1914 in St Monans, Fife and no grave record was ever found for him despite a thorough search by Fife Council. Other family members are recorded, even two who lie in Common Ground, one being as late as 1934.



Dorrie
Small, County Antrim & Dundee
Dickson, County Down & Dundee
Madden, County Westmeath
Patrick, Fife
Easson, Fife
Leslie, Fife
Paterson, Fife


Offline diane747

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Re: Burial/Cremation in Fife 1942 - Information sought
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 08 February 23 09:57 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much for that information Dorrie. I did wonder whether church graveyards may have kept their own records. I will retrace my previous research as I’m sure I read somewhere that the Pathhead Church documents had been destroyed in a fire at some point but it was quite a while ago I was down that path so my brain could be a bit fuzzy on that. It’s certainly worth following up the possibility that her record may have been lost - especially given the situation you shared about your family. Many thanks Dorrie. 
Diane

Offline Margow

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Re: Burial/Cremation in Fife 1942 - Information sought
« Reply #14 on: Friday 10 February 23 01:41 GMT (UK) »
There was no crematorium in Fife until Kirkcaldy Crematorium opened in 1959 and Dunfermline Crematorium in 1973.  Before then, Fife cremations usually seem to have been carried out at Warriston Crematorium in Edinburgh.

You mention your parents and local relatives attempting to visit Helen's grave, but without success. Do you know when this was or where (Kirkcaldy?  Dunfermline?  Rosyth?) ?  Was it a churchyard or a municipal cemetery?  Would you be able to quote or reproduce the relevant extract from your mother's diary?  It might just offer clues to forum members with local knowledge.

Margow

Offline diane747

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Re: Burial/Cremation in Fife 1942 - Information sought
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 11 February 23 23:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Margow,

Thank you so much for the information about Crematoriums in Kirkcaldy and Dunfermline - and where people from that area would likely have been cremated at the time! It is extremely helpful to know this, as I had no idea.

In relation to the my parents and local relatives trying to visit Helen's grave, it was in March, 1981.  My parents went back to Scotland for a holiday and to spend time with family. The relatives were Helen's husband's siblings, who Helen and her husband, John, had lived with - and who my father (Helen and John's son) went to live with and was raised by, after Helen died (my father was 2 yo at the time of Helen's death). 

The diary entry by my mother is only short.  Mum states that they had been to 'look at Grandad's grave' (John's father, buried in Hayfield Cemetery, Kirkcaldy), which 'had a new headstone'.  The entry continues - "Tried to find Helen's grave but the yard was all locked up and overgrown" (which she then describes only as being like the old graveyard in the town she lived in Tasmania - which at the time was very old, with mostly crumbling/broken tombstones and overgrown with weeds, gorse, native trees/plants etc.). "Couldn't find a key anywhere". The next sentence says they then took the relatives on "a wee tour around Kirkcaldy, over their own childhood jaunts".

That is all I have but it confirmed for me that Helen must have been buried, and that it was likely somewhere close to Kirkcaldy (at least within a relatively short driving distance, I would presume).

As an aside - my thinking around Patthead as being a possibility for where Helen may be buried comes from the following -
the Reverend who was thanked in the Acknowledgement notice in The Fife Free Press, delivered services at a church in Pathhead around the time Helen died;
Pathhead appears to have/have had a locked, gated cemetery that was overgrown and in a state of disrepair at the time of my parent's visit;
John's father is cited as having previously lived at 1 Mid Street, West End, Kirkcaldy Burgh, overlooking the Pathhead graveyard;
John's mother's maiden name is Buist and there are records showing that her father also lived at this address  (1 Mid Street-, West End);
and most recently I have found out
there is a plot at the Pathhead graveyard where 9 members of the Buist family are interred (although I am yet to research to see if they are directly related to John's mother).

May all be just leading me down a rabbit hole but with no record of Helen's burial, I have been/and continue to go down many of those in my quest to find where she is buried.

Many thanks,
Diane

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Burial/Cremation in Fife 1942 - Information sought
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 12 February 23 03:47 GMT (UK) »
Mum states that they had been to 'look at Grandad's grave' (John's father, buried in Hayfield Cemetery, Kirkcaldy), which 'had a new headstone'.  The entry continues - "Tried to find Helen's grave but the yard was all locked up and overgrown"
 
As an aside - my thinking around Patthead as being a possibility for where Helen may be buried comes from the following -
the Reverend who was thanked in the Acknowledgement notice in The Fife Free Press, delivered services at a church in Pathhead around the time Helen died;
Pathhead appears to have/have had a locked, gated cemetery that was overgrown and in a state of disrepair at the time of my parent's visit;
John's father is cited as having previously lived at 1 Mid Street, West End, Kirkcaldy Burgh, overlooking the Pathhead graveyard;
John's mother's maiden name is Buist and there are records showing that her father also lived at this address  (1 Mid Street-, West End);
and most recently I have found out there is a plot at the Pathhead graveyard where 9 members of the Buist family are interred (although I am yet to research to see if they are directly related to John's mother).
Diane...

Such a sad story, your father being only 2 yrs old when your g/m died but Pathhead does seem very likely.

Margo's info. is so helpful in your quest!

Have you emailed...
https://www.fife.gov.uk/facilities/cemetery/pathhead-churchyard,-kirkcaldy

It can actually be amazing what different responses you can get depending on who deals with emails/'phone calls etc.
I've found at times, less experienced/uninterested/lazy people do not go out of their way to find out things they don't know if it means they 'have to work'!

I'd suggest an email with all info. including the 'Reverend' named, family names/dates/addresses & your family story attached may get a good response.

It is of course a possibility there may not be a Headstone but even if they could confirm things would be something.

Good luck!

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline diane747

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Re: Burial/Cremation in Fife 1942 - Information sought
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 15 February 23 07:27 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Annie,
No I haven't emailed them - I didn't have that information, so thank you very much for including it. I will do as you suggest.
Thanks again,
Diane