No idea where to go from here!!!

[greyhobbes02]

Hi, I'm brand new so am not too sure what I am doing, so apologies for any mistakes. I have been doing quite a lot of family history lately, largely on Find My Past but also on Ancestry.

 I've hit a brick wall with my great-great-grandfather Henry Williams, on my mum's side.
I have him on the 1901 and 1911 censuses as born in Birmingham in 1849 but in 1891 it says he was from Shrewsbury?! He is down as a labourer but also a lodging house keeper(as his wife Rebecca already had a lodging house when they got married in 1884) and a coal miner at one point so no specific trade. On the marriage certificate he has labeled his father as Thomas Williams, a labourer. I assume he was still alive in 1884 as it does not say deceased but of course I can't be certain.
I also have no idea when he died. His past child to be married was in March 1915 and he is not down as deceased so I assume he is still alive at that point. His wife died in 1919 and their son John Albert (my ) is living at the lodging house in 1921 but Henry is nowhere to be found. He is also not with any of his kids or stepkids and no Henry Williams in the surrounding area fits the bill, even with a 20 mile radius. I assume he died between 1915 and 1921 but none of the death records really fit and I have no way to verify them anyway.
I have looked at baptisms and censuses around Birmingham and Shrewsbury but there are so many possibilities and I have no way to distinguish between them.
Does anybody have ANY idea where I can go from here??

(Sorry for the really long message!)

[Jebber]

Welcome to Rootschat.

Henry WILLIAMS is a common name so it's no wonder you are  having difficulty.

You cannot rely on a Father's being alive or deceased on marriage certificates, it's not a question that was  required to be asked, simply the name of the father.  Sometimes where one or other of the couple was illegitimate they may name a relative or a fictitious person, so it pays to keep that in mind.

Who were the witnesses at the marriage, could one of them be a relative?

You say his wife died in 1919, do you have her death certificate? That should say if she was married or  widowed, that would help narrow down William’s death.

Have you found any likely Williams the about right age in Birmingham or Shrewsbury in the earlier census, I imagine there could be several? I solved a similar problem with a common name by researching others with the same name and birth place until I could discount them with certainty, the only one left was the one I wanted.

Hopefully you will get some other more helpful suggestions from other Rootschatters.

[jbml]

Well, you could try to track him back one census at a time; but I might be minded to go to 1851 next when we believe he should be 2 years old.

He will probably still be in his birth town then ... so concentrate on the Birmingham and Shrewsbury ones.

It CAN be a bit of a chore, but sometimes there's nothing for it but to trawl through a mountain of "hits" and weed them out one by one ... wrong mother's name, wrong father's occupation, etc.

Some of them you might have to look at the family unit and try to trace that family unit forward. Does it go in teh right direction or a wrong one/

Critically, don't make the mistake of discarding your notes on teh ones that you have discounted. Keep them safe somewhere ... you might need them in future, to justify a decision or cross refer a point.

I have to say, though, you've drawn a pretty tough one for so early in your researching career ...

[bbart]

If I am looking at the correct censuses, Henry and Rebecca are living at 47 Princess Street, Chester.

It would appear that Rebecca was born Taylor, and married a Thomas Davies before marrying Henry Williams.

Note the cover address on the 1911 census form sent to them: it is being sent to Mr. H. Williams Jr.   As he said his father was a Thomas, it is possible Henry is actually a Thomas Henry, and didn't use his real first name.  Perhaps look for a death/burial under Thomas Henry Williams.  *sigh*  It's Henry's son (at 45 Princess Street that I was looking at).

The 1911 also states to list the number of living and dead children of THIS marriage, but they slipped up here, and it appears Rebecca listed all of  her children from both marriages.  However, if you can sort out which ones died, and find out where they are buried, with any luck Henry is buried nearby.

Just for reference:
In 1891, they have these children with them:
Henry     age 6
John       age 3
Rebecca  age 1
Thomas Davies (stepson), age 16
James Davies (stepson) age 14
Phoebe Davies (stepdaur) age 10

In 1901, Henry has these children with him at 45 Princess St:
Rebecca age 12
Flora age 8
Grandson William Wilson, age 6

Rebecca is at 47 Princess St with children:
William Davies age 27
Thomas Davies age 25
James Davies age 23
Henry Williams age 16
John Williams age 14

In 1911, they have these children with them:
Jack Williams, age 24  (I assume this is John)
Rebecca Williams age 21
Florence Williams age 18

Edit:  Welcome to Rootschat!! 

Edit again!  Fixed the 1901 entries, thanks to Dundee for the corrections! 
And again!  Struck out the 1911 paragraph; thanks to Heywood for catching that. 

[Dundee]

In 1901, they have these children with them:
William Davies age 27
Thomas Davies age 25
James Davies age 23
Henry Williams age 16
John Williams age 14

In 1911, they have these children with them:
Jack Williams, age 24  (I assume this is John)
Rebecca Williams age 21
Florence Williams age 18

Just for info, in 1901 Henry (Harry) is at number 45 with daughters Rebecca and Florence (Flora) and his wife is at the lodging house at number 47.

Debra 

[bbart]

Just for info, in 1901 Henry (Harry) is at number 45 with daughters Rebecca and Florence (Flora) and his wife is at the lodging house at number 47.

Debra 

Thank you!  I have corrected it.  I mainly posted it to put all the children together, as I always end up with a zillion tabs open when hunting them all down.   

[bbart]

The grandchild on the 1901 census, William Wilson age 6, is baffling me.

Was Henry previously married before he was with Rebecca?

[jbml]

The grandchild on the 1901 census, William Wilson age 6, is baffling me.

Was Henry previously married before he was with Rebecca?

In 1901 he should be 51 or 52 if the date of birth of 1849 is correct (it need not be)! So when William was born he was 45 or 46. This gives him time to have become a grandfather ... but only just. Which is REALLY good news as long as everything is above board and in the open (which it need not be ... oh the joys of FH!)

Always start by assuming that everything is as it is said to be, but be prepared to conclude that it is not when the evidence against it mounts to a critical point. But assume it to be so for now. This is REALLY helpful because it will help you to narrow down  the date range for your searches for the marriages.


Some really important hints for a beginner:

Marriages registered at the GRO before a certain date are indexed in such a way that you are given a choice of possible people that they married (the marriages are indexed in little batches of male names and female names, but nobody thought to index which one married who). You don't find out the correct bride until you order the certificate which can be frustrating (and expensive). Sometimes it's fine because you already know the bride's first name and there's only one pssible bride with this first name. But sometimes there are two or three, which can be a real pain. There are ways round this.

One way is to look for the marriage in the parish registers as well. This will give you only one identity for the bride. The problem is that when they first started digitising the parish records they stopped at 1837 "because GRO can take over from there". This is slowly being corrected ... but there's a bulk of material and it takes time, so you cannot be certain that your marriage can be found online in BOTH sources.

Another way is to look for the registration of the births of any children. Then you get the mother's maiden name and can go back and work out which is the correct bride. When I started in FH you had ot order the certificate to find the bride's maiden name, but now it's available in the GRO index so you just have to find the right registration for the child and then you can go back and decide which is the correct bride for your man.

Sometimes, however, you get the mother's maiden name and it doesn't match ANY of the possible brides. What then? Well, it may be that you're not looking at the correct marriage, or it may be that the bride was previously married, or it might be that they never actually married at all, they just started living together and the woman adopted the man's name. I have had instances of all three situations in my research.


Advice to beginner in this situation:

I'd focus on this grandson for a bit. It's an unhelpful name, to be sure ... but if his place of birth and age are both accurately stated (they might not be!) then you might find that there are only one or two possible candidates. If more than one, have a look for infant deaths the following year. You might be able to "kill off" all but one of them. Then do a sibling search ... other births in the same place with the same mother's maiden name in the previous 10 years. See if you can build up a picture of the "family unit" and hope to find one (or more) born  prior to the 1891 census. If so, look for them in the 1891 census and see if you can pick up one or both parents. Then you can start looking for the evidence of how they fit in, which will help you to narrow everything down for your searches on the main family line, or be certain that you have identified the correct family group in censuses etc.

[Kay99]

The grandchild on the 1901 census, William Wilson age 6, is baffling me.

On the 1901 transcription on Anc this correction has been added

"He is the son, born March 1894, of Rebecca Williams' dead daughter, Maria, and son-in-law Allan Keeble whose name was Welton. His christening on 22/6/1899 gave as address 47 Princess St/lodging house keeper."

Kay

Added - I think this could be the family in 1891 who married in Chester in 1886 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4S4J-16Z