Author Topic: Is this a wedding photo?  (Read 2020 times)

Online Erato

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Re: Is this a wedding photo?
« Reply #9 on: Friday 14 April 23 00:22 BST (UK) »
Man seated, wife standing alongside seems to have been the style for photos in the mid- to late nineteenth century.  I have photos of three sets of g-grandparents taken that way, two American and one English.  I believe one of them from Wisconsin was a wedding photo (taken in 1859).
Wiltshire:  Banks, Taylor
Somerset:  Duddridge, Richards, Barnard, Pillinger
Gloucestershire:  Barnard, Marsh, Crossman
Bristol:  Banks, Duddridge, Barnard
Down:  Ennis, McGee
Wicklow:  Chapman, Pepper
Wigtownshire:  Logan, Conning
Wisconsin:  Ennis, Chapman, Logan, Ware
Maine:  Ware, Mitchell, Tarr, Davis

Offline jim1

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Re: Is this a wedding photo?
« Reply #10 on: Friday 14 April 23 12:17 BST (UK) »
Disagree with the date.
I would suggest v.late 1880's-early 1890's.
She's not wearing a bustle which was the dress code in the 80's.
She also appears to have hip-padding which first appeared late 1880's.
His dress style was typical throughout the 1880's & 90's.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Gadget

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Re: Is this a wedding photo?
« Reply #11 on: Friday 14 April 23 13:05 BST (UK) »
I disagree, Jim.

My 'go to books' describe the man's outfit as  fitting  early 1880s and the is woman probably wearing an early 1880s closer fitting skirt.

To quote :

Quote
In 1880, the fashionable female silhouette was still sheath-like

Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline jim1

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Re: Is this a wedding photo?
« Reply #12 on: Friday 14 April 23 14:15 BST (UK) »
There are plenty of examples of men in this attire in the 1890's.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline Treetotal

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Re: Is this a wedding photo?
« Reply #13 on: Friday 14 April 23 16:23 BST (UK) »
In a quote from my book:

Men's Clothing
"The fashion for men in the 1880s did not change much, especially compared to women's dress. There is however, one great fad or style that stands out among a vast number of 1880s photographs. This would be the fastening of only the top button of a coat or jacket. This has not been seen by the author in pre-1880s photographs and only the very earliest of 1890s"

Quote from 19th Century card Photos - Kwik Guide by Gary W. Clark.



Books and the internet often give conflicting info, dating old photos is not an exact science and there will always be exceptions to the rule.
Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
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Online Erato

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Re: Is this a wedding photo?
« Reply #14 on: Friday 14 April 23 17:03 BST (UK) »
"fastening of only the top button of a coat or jacket"

Well, g-grandpa Hugh Ennis (a sometime hog farmer and unsuccessful general store owner from Merritt's Landing, Wisconsin, pop. <50) was right in style, then.  On the other hand, g-grandpa James Duddridge (a quite posh, prosperous and smartly dressed wholesale grocer from Bristol) was not; he had no buttons fastened on his jacket. 
Wiltshire:  Banks, Taylor
Somerset:  Duddridge, Richards, Barnard, Pillinger
Gloucestershire:  Barnard, Marsh, Crossman
Bristol:  Banks, Duddridge, Barnard
Down:  Ennis, McGee
Wicklow:  Chapman, Pepper
Wigtownshire:  Logan, Conning
Wisconsin:  Ennis, Chapman, Logan, Ware
Maine:  Ware, Mitchell, Tarr, Davis

Offline jim1

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Re: Is this a wedding photo?
« Reply #15 on: Friday 14 April 23 17:23 BST (UK) »
Is it me or is there a strange fascination (or should that be fastenation)
with buttons today.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline arthurk

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Re: Is this a wedding photo?
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 15 April 23 17:06 BST (UK) »
Maybe I should have done it first, but I've now consulted my dating books and looked into the studio and photographer, and it seems that Jim may be nearer the mark than the rest of us, though possibly still a bit early:
Disagree with the date.
I would suggest v.late 1880's-early 1890's.
She's not wearing a bustle which was the dress code in the 80's.
She also appears to have hip-padding which first appeared late 1880's.
His dress style was typical throughout the 1880's & 90's.

Costume isn't really my strongest point, but one thing I picked up from Jayne Shrimpton is the more elaborate bodice from about 1888 onwards, sometimes with a plastron. From about 1890-92 there's also a subtle puff at the top of the sleeve, which in the following years became a full "leg of mutton". This became smaller again from the mid-1890s.

The photo I posted was from an old scan, and I've now found the original, which gives further important clues for dating. The reverse of the mount lists Allen Nield's studios as:
Queen's Arcade, Leeds
Lindenthorpe Villa, Linden Road, Leeds
65 (late at 105) Market Street, Manchester
68 Wellington Road South, Stockport
111 Brook Street, Macclesfield

I've found references to these as follows:
Queen's Arcade - 1891 census and electoral rolls from following years
Lindenthorpe - 1896 electoral roll (residence?)
Manchester - advert for assistants in Manchester Evening News of 7 July 1894 with address of 105 Market Street (nothing found for 65)
Stockport - Stockport County Express of 6 Sep 1894 mentions recent opening of studio there
Macclesfield - nothing found

So it seems that the mount must be from about 1895 or later, and I don't think the couple's clothes or appearance would totally rule that out. Samuel was born in Nov 1854 and his wife in May 1857; I could see them as having a few more years on the clock than in 1883, and by then he was definitely an insurance agent rather than a miner.

I've also considered whether it might be a reprint of an earlier photo. In the 1881 census Allen Nield was a coffee tavern keeper in Hadfield, near Glossop, and he was still there in July 1887 (newspaper report of his son drinking poison (fatally)). The next reference I have to him elsewhere is the 1891 census as a photographer in Leeds, plus an 1891 electoral roll at a different address in Leeds which didn't give an occupation. So if he took it himself, it can't have been earlier than about 1888. He could in theory have taken over an existing business in Leeds with all its old negatives etc, but that would need further research.

And the pose? According to Robert Pols' "Understanding Old Photographs" it was popularised by Queen Victoria, but there were aesthetic considerations too. As I'd wondered, the relative heights of husband and wife could be a factor, but having the wife standing allowed her dress to be shown off better. Her figure was also rather more likely to appear as a graceful and flowing part of the composition than that of a man in what may have been a rather shapeless and baggy suit.

Anyway, thanks for all the input so far. Any further thoughts are of course welcome, but for now I'm not sure whether I can say anything more precise than 1888-96, with earlier dates being a reprint with an 1895-ish mount - so not their wedding photo, but possibly to mark some other occasion as yet undetermined.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Gadget

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Re: Is this a wedding photo?
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 15 April 23 20:49 BST (UK) »
I would think that the most likely explanation is that it is a reprint, Arthur.

Gadget

Add - meant to ask if you could do a scan of the back, please  :)

 Add2 - this is an 1896 photo:

https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~victorianphotographs/history/date/a1896.htm
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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