Tissot Census place of birth

[Seelife]

Hi Folks. I have been posting about Joseph Tissot being a frenchman, not born in Lincolnshire, New Holland. This is the 1841 census record where Joseph appears as Tipett which we accept is a variation of his actual name Tissot. Joseph appears as living in Brewood, near Bishops Wood in Staffordshire in a number of records, including marriages and death etc.
But, court records show him as a Frenchman, not Britu´ish so his birthplace cannot be Lincolnshire.

So, here is his census record that is causing some confusion. It has been suggested that the entry is Non - Holland, not "New Holland". Josephs entry is the second last one, I have only included the first few to show the column headings.
I would appreciate an experts interpretation here so I can with some confidence, update his Profile in WikiTree. In the meantime in the Europe Forum, we are pursuing his possible entry to England about 1795 as a prisoner of war from the Napoleonic conflicts.
Thanks so much for any assistance.

[arthurk]

The birthplace question has already been raised in the Europe forum, and I don't think there's anything that needs to be added to manukarik's answer here:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=871273.msg7424657#msg7424657

The only thing I would comment on here is that the surname is probably Tissett, with long s and short s in the middle - common at that date and frequently mistaken for 'p'. I say 'probably' because it would be wise to confirm that the enumerator wrote 'ss' like that in other places too.

[Seelife]

Hi Arthurk, its not the surname that I wish interpreted, but the column, Where Born.
I would like to be sure if its "New" or "Non" or something else. I accept Manukariks answer as very likely correct. I was only posting to check those with handwriting experience. In this case the "Holland" entry is important as it points at a french speaking region of "Holland" at a time when borders and countries were in flux. It also suggests a place to look closer for Joseph's background.
Thanks for inputting.

[arthurk]

Hi Arthurk, its not the surname that I wish interpreted, but the column, Where Born.

I was just commenting on what you wrote above...

This is the 1841 census record where Joseph appears as Tipett which we accept is a variation of his actual name Tissot.

...in an attempt to save you from fruitless research. Tipett is almost certainly a misinterpretation of what the enumerator wrote in 1841, and can't be described as a "variation" of Tissot.

For the place of birth, there should be either a Y or N in the first column, or an S, I or F in the second. The fact that the enumerator wrote more might mean that he himself couldn't make out what Tissett had written, so he copied it as best he could and decided to leave someone else to work out if it was New or Non. Two further possibilities come to mind: 'Now' - because boundaries and jurisdictions changed, or 'North' (strictly North Netherlands) because the south had split off to become Belgium in 1830.

But in view of the descriptions of him in the newspapers etc (quoted in the other thread) I think you can be fairly sure that it's not intended to be New Holland.

[Seelife]

Thanks Arturk, I agree. Thanks for the insights.

[sparrett]

I don't know whether it has been mentioned before, or if in any way relevant, but Australia was New Holland until round 1824 when it was more generally called Australia.

https://www.nla.gov.au/faq/how-was-australia-named#:~:text=The%20New%20South%20Wales%20Governor,came%20into%20common%20local%20usage.

Sue

[Seelife]

Hi Sparrett. Thanks, yes, in this case though Joseph was clearly a frenchman. However, Josephs son was sent as a convict to Tasmania (Van Diemens Land) as a teenager. I am grateful for any thoughts as you never know when something clicks. Thanks.

[arthurk]

One further thought: New Holland as a village (the one in Lincolnshire) didn't really take off until the coming of the railway in 1848, though it had been the site of a ferry across the Humber before that.

I haven't managed to work out when the name New Holland first came into use (possibly with the railway?), but this Ordnance Survey map of 1803 shows its location as Barrow Ferry:

https://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/maps/sheet/os_unions_1803_1838_se/Hull_1803_1838

So it seems extremely unlikely that someone would say they were born in New Holland in the mid-1700s.

[Seelife]

Hi arthurk, that is a very useful bit of info. Its also unlikely he would note his birthplace as a villiage that was not yet properly in existance. I feel that the "proofs" that Joseph was not born in Lincolnshire are now overwhelming. Thank you.