Need help with name please.

[Neale1961]

I believe the parents of Frank Edwin Martin born 1872 are Francis Martin and Elizabeth Johnston but I am still trying to confirm that I have his correct parents.

According to the 1911 census, you are looking for a Frank MARTIN born in Edinburgh about 1872. Occupation - reed maker for musical instruments.

You have found:
Frank MARTIN born 12 March1869 in Aberdeen to Francis Martin and Elizabeth Johnston
Parents married 1867 Aberdeen. Father was a joiner / carpenter
Frank married his wife Jane Elizabeth McLEOD in 1897 South Shields
In 1901 census (North Shields) Frank is an Innkeeper living with wife and child
In 1911 (South Shields) census Frank is a Rigger and General Shipworker  living with wife and family

I don’t understand how he could possibly be your Frank, but good luck trying to make it all fit.

[softly softly]

Mitche11,

You say,

"All the information I have that I know to be correct indicate that Frances was born between 1879 - 1889."

and

Frank Edwin Taylor aka Frank Johnston Morley and Lily Mary Annie Higgs had 4 children:
Joyce Edith Morley born Oct 1928 • Lambeth, London, England
Jean Morley born Jul 1931 • Lambeth, London, England
Douglas Frank Johnston Morley born 19 Jun 1934 • Surrey North Eastern, Surrey
Derrek Douglas Johnston Morley born 28 Jan 1937 • Surrey North Eastern, Surrey
They also had an adopted son: John Morley born about 1938 • Surrey, England. I have no other information on John Morley.

Are you a descendant of one of Frank and Lily's children ?

John

[Mitche11]

Mitche11,

You say,

"All the information I have that I know to be correct indicate that Frances was born between 1879 - 1889."

and

Frank Edwin Taylor aka Frank Johnston Morley and Lily Mary Annie Higgs had 4 children:
Joyce Edith Morley born Oct 1928 • Lambeth, London, England
Jean Morley born Jul 1931 • Lambeth, London, England
Douglas Frank Johnston Morley born 19 Jun 1934 • Surrey North Eastern, Surrey
Derrek Douglas Johnston Morley born 28 Jan 1937 • Surrey North Eastern, Surrey
They also had an adopted son: John Morley born about 1938 • Surrey, England. I have no other information on John Morley.

Are you a descendant of one of Frank and Lily's children ?

John

Jean Morley born 1931 is my husbands grandmother.

[Mitche11]

I am so confused with Frances Taylor/Morley and beginning to wonder if it was her daughter Francis Evelyn Taylor/Martin/Morley who married Percy Painter and as she did not know who her father she put Stephen Taylor as her father but he is really her uncle, making Stephen Taylor, occupation builder Frances Taylor/Morley's brother! Dates of birth for Frances Taylor/Morley range from 1879 to 1882. This is just a theory.

[softly softly]

Quote:

but in 1923 Frances Taylor otherwise Morley married Percy Painter in Lambeth, they were both living at 3 Gresham Road, Brixton at time of marriage. Frances Taylor's father is Stephen Taylor, occupation: builder, he was deceased at time of marriage. Percy Painter's father is Albert Painter, occupation: Stoker (borough council).

1911 census has a Percy Painter aged 9 Born Ilminster living with parents Albert and Margaret. Albert's occupation is Stoker.

Even this is confusing. Albert Painter appears to have married Sarah Ann Leaves in 1898 in Chard but appears in 1901 as Albert Fairley on Anc*(image shows Painter), with Sarah his wife and a son Percy aged 5 months.

PAINTER, PERCY       MEAD 
GRO Reference: 1900  D Quarter in CHARD  Volume 05C  Page 343

If this is your Percy his age would indicate that he probably married Frances Evelyn who would have been around the same age as opposed to someone (Frances) who was 20 years older!

John

added, as per 1901 census

PAINTER, FLORENCE  BEATRICE MAY    mmn LEAVES 
GRO Reference: 1899  J Quarter in CHARD  Volume 05C  Page 357

[Neale1961]

Dates of birth for Frances Taylor/Morley range from 1879 to 1882.

By taking Frances’ birth year on 2 census records you have assumed she is giving her correct age. Quite often as women aged, their birth year on records changed to make them look younger. I have come across countless examples of this, with women saying they were sometimes 10 years younger than they actually were. Especially common if their husband was younger than them.

Once again, I suggest you look at the birth records of her children,  and the 1921 census.

I know I have asked before, but I will try again. .....
Can you please post here the 1923 marriage record of Frances to Percy Painter.

[Mitche11]

Dates of birth for Frances Taylor/Morley range from 1879 to 1882.

By taking Frances’ birth year on 2 census records you have assumed she is giving her correct age. Quite often as women aged, their birth year on records changed to make them look younger. I have come across countless examples of this, with women saying they were sometimes 10 years younger than they actually were. Especially common if their husband was younger than them.

Once again, I suggest you look at the birth records of her children,  and the 1921 census.

I know I have asked before, but I will try again. .....
Can you please post here the 1923 marriage record of Frances to Percy Painter.

I have given you all the information on the 1923 marriage certificate I purchased!

Here is the record:
Percy Painter m Frances Taylor Or Morley Dec qtr 1923 Lambeth RD
Volume Number   1d Page number   651

[Mitche11]

Quote:

but in 1923 Frances Taylor otherwise Morley married Percy Painter in Lambeth, they were both living at 3 Gresham Road, Brixton at time of marriage. Frances Taylor's father is Stephen Taylor, occupation: builder, he was deceased at time of marriage. Percy Painter's father is Albert Painter, occupation: Stoker (borough council).

1911 census has a Percy Painter aged 9 Born Ilminster living with parents Albert and Margaret. Albert's occupation is Stoker.

Even this is confusing. Albert Painter appears to have married Sarah Ann Leaves in 1898 in Chard but appears in 1901 as Albert Fairley on Anc*(image shows Painter), with Sarah his wife and a son Percy aged 5 months.

PAINTER, PERCY       MEAD 
GRO Reference: 1900  D Quarter in CHARD  Volume 05C  Page 343

If this is your Percy his age would indicate that he probably married Frances Evelyn who would have been around the same age as opposed to someone (Frances) who was 20 years older!

John

added, as per 1901 census

PAINTER, FLORENCE  BEATRICE MAY    mmn LEAVES 
GRO Reference: 1899  J Quarter in CHARD  Volume 05C  Page 357

Albert Painter married Sarah Ann Leaves in 1898 at Ashill, Somerset then in 1909 he married Margaret Wylde Baxter.

I cannot find a birth record for Percy Painter born 1900 other than the one you have given above but he was baptised 9 November 1900 in Ilminster, Somerset, England, parents Albert Painter and Sarah Ann. Also I cannot find a birth record for Percy's sister Bessie born abt. 1903 in Hammersmith but Percy's other sisters I have found birth records for and all have mother's maiden name Leaves. Percy seems to be the only child that was baptised.

PAINTER, FLORENCE  BEATRICE MAY    LEAVES 
GRO Reference: 1899  J Quarter in CHARD  Volume 05C  Page 357

PAINTER, LILY       LEAVES 
GRO Reference: 1905  J Quarter in FULHAM  Volume 01A  Page 181

PAINTER, DAISY  SARAH     LEAVES 
GRO Reference: 1907  J Quarter in FULHAM  Volume 01A  Page 230

[softly softly]

Percy in 1921

Percy
Painter
1900
Ilminster, Somerset, England
—
Army
Army

John