Author Topic: How Welsh am I?  (Read 1119 times)

Offline Gadget

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Re: How Welsh am I?
« Reply #27 on: Monday 01 May 23 14:19 BST (UK) »
I was born in North Wales, as were my parents and grandparents.

I've just been checking where my direct ancestors (up to my 3rd Greats) were born ~

North Wales  - 80%
Shropshire/Welsh borders - 10%
SW Scotland -10%
(rounded %s)

Earlier ancestors are more or less the same plus a couple from Ireland, and a line that came over with William the Conqueror and settled in Shropshire and then Flintshire*.

Ancestry calculates my ethnicity as:

Wales (North Wales)  - 89% (range 81 - 96%)
Scotland - 7% (range 0-14%)
Ireland - 2% (range 0-6%)
Sweden & Denmark  and Norway- both 1% ( with range of 0-3%)


Gadget

* Note modern county names!
 
PS.  and my maternal haplogroup is K1a4a1

Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline Gadget

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Re: How Welsh am I?
« Reply #28 on: Monday 01 May 23 15:02 BST (UK) »
Re my haplogroup

23andMe says this about this group:

Quote
Origin and Migrations of Haplogroup K1a4a1

Your maternal line stems from a branch of haplogroup K called K1a4a1. Haplogroup K1a4a1 is predominantly European today, and traces back to a woman who lived approximately 10,000 years ago. Europe was at the start of an age of transformation. To the east in the Fertile Crescent, people were successfully domesticating crops and transitioning to a more settled lifestyle. This new technology supported a boom in human populations, and over thousands of years migrations of these new farmers moved gradually westward across the European continent, leading to additional population growth and great cultural changes. K1a4a1 expanded along with these population changes, giving rise to additional branches throughout Europe.

Today, members of K1a4a1 can be found at low levels within Europe, including in eastern Europe and the Caucasus. Though not typically found outside of Europe, one lineage has been identified as far south as Anatolia.

 :D
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Offline melba_schmelba

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Re: How Welsh am I?
« Reply #29 on: Monday 01 May 23 15:33 BST (UK) »
Re my haplogroup

23andMe says this about this group:

Origin and Migrations of Haplogroup K1a4a1
....
Interesting gadget, your Ancestry estimate now seems pretty accurate :). Re: your K1 mtDNA, it's one of the rarer ones in Europe and probably reflects the pre Indo European/steppe herder populations. Along with U5 they previously represented the majority of maternal lines amongst the Neolithic farming peoples, before the Hs arrived with the steppe peoples and came to dominate after 3000-2500BC. Interestingly, K does seem to be 'hotter' in the west of Wales and Scotland and in the whole of Ireland on this map

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_K_mtDNA.shtml
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_mtdna_haplogroups_frequency.shtml

Offline melba_schmelba

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Re: How Welsh am I?
« Reply #30 on: Monday 01 May 23 15:40 BST (UK) »
Melba_schmelba originally I had what I considered low Welsh ethnicity.  Now I have too much!  Then I found that ancestry included part of Somerset in their calculations (2 great grandparents from Keynsham) so I relaxed a bit.  Now if they could only explain to me why my Scottish count is so high.  Surely itís not because I married a Scot and like the bagpipes. 🤪🤪🤪
It's true the Scotland DNA grouping seems a bit less accurate than the Welsh one on Ancestry and yo-yos up and down for a lot of people :D. I think it could be because the Scottish are a lot more Anglo-Saxon that they'd like to admit - most of the lowlands used to be Anglo-Saxon kingdoms and the Scots language is actually a variant of English :o!
https://dsl.ac.uk/about-scots/what-is-scots/


Offline Gadget

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Re: How Welsh am I?
« Reply #31 on: Monday 01 May 23 15:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks for those links, melba_schmelba.

My direct maternal line in my tree stops at about 4xgrt grandmother. She is there as a Jones in the Corwen/Bala (Llyn Tegid) area in the mid 1700s.

I must  go back and do some more searching.

Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline Albufera32

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Re: How Welsh am I?
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 14:21 BST (UK) »
Melba_schmelba originally I had what I considered low Welsh ethnicity.  Now I have too much!  Then I found that ancestry included part of Somerset in their calculations (2 great grandparents from Keynsham) so I relaxed a bit.  Now if they could only explain to me why my Scottish count is so high.  Surely itís not because I married a Scot and like the bagpipes. 🤪🤪🤪
It's true the Scotland DNA grouping seems a bit less accurate than the Welsh one on Ancestry and yo-yos up and down for a lot of people :D. I think it could be because the Scottish are a lot more Anglo-Saxon that they'd like to admit - most of the lowlands used to be Anglo-Saxon kingdoms and the Scots language is actually a variant of English :o!
https://dsl.ac.uk/about-scots/what-is-scots/

I'm no Scot Nat (British and proud of it) and without wishing to get into an argument, you could as easily say English is a variant of Scots.

As the link provided states modern English and Scots do indeed both derive from the same root (Anglo Saxon) but they have been separate languages since at least the 14th Century. Burns did not write in a dialect or variant of English - he wrote in Scots. Just as Shakespeare wrote in English, not a Scots dialect. (And if we're honest, as modern readers we need those footnotes to explain all the strange words to understand either of them fully.)

What is true is that Scots is closer to English than it is to Gaelic.
Howie (Riccarton Ayrshire)
McNeil/ McNeill (Argyll)
Main (Airdrie Lanarkshire)
Grant (Lanarkshire and Bo'ness)
More (Lanarkshire)
Ure (Polmont)
Colligan (Lanarkshire)
Drinnan (New Zealand)

Offline melba_schmelba

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Re: How Welsh am I?
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 18:08 BST (UK) »
Melba_schmelba originally I had what I considered low Welsh ethnicity.  Now I have too much!  Then I found that ancestry included part of Somerset in their calculations (2 great grandparents from Keynsham) so I relaxed a bit.  Now if they could only explain to me why my Scottish count is so high.  Surely itís not because I married a Scot and like the bagpipes. 🤪🤪🤪
It's true the Scotland DNA grouping seems a bit less accurate than the Welsh one on Ancestry and yo-yos up and down for a lot of people :D. I think it could be because the Scottish are a lot more Anglo-Saxon that they'd like to admit - most of the lowlands used to be Anglo-Saxon kingdoms and the Scots language is actually a variant of English :o!
https://dsl.ac.uk/about-scots/what-is-scots/

I'm no Scot Nat (British and proud of it) and without wishing to get into an argument, you could as easily say English is a variant of Scots.

As the link provided states modern English and Scots do indeed both derive from the same root (Anglo Saxon) but they have been separate languages since at least the 14th Century. Burns did not write in a dialect or variant of English - he wrote in Scots. Just as Shakespeare wrote in English, not a Scots dialect. (And if we're honest, as modern readers we need those footnotes to explain all the strange words to understand either of them fully.)

What is true is that Scots is closer to English than it is to Gaelic.
Apologies Albufera, I didn't mean to upset anyone by what I said. I suppose, when researching my own Scottish ancestry, I was surprised to discover that Scots was mainly a Germanic language with the same root as English. One of the first words to come to my attention in an 18th century will was Umquhile = 'the late'  :) This was used in England but had gone out of use much earlier.

https://dsl.ac.uk/entry/dost/umquhile

Offline Rena

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Re: How Welsh am I?
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 21:30 BST (UK) »
When my late OH was seconded to NATO, we lived in the Netherlands for a couple of years.

I'd been taught French and German at school but had to pick up the Dutch language as I went along.   I was most surprised when a Scottish army family moved into the area and immediately the lady of the household chattered away in her own language to the local Dutch  people. 

One of the shared verbs with British and Germanic peoples is a familiar verb to most people = "kennen,= to know".    It is in the song   "Do you ken John Peel with his coat so gay.... tra, la, la, la"

Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline Albufera32

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Re: How Welsh am I?
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 21:48 BST (UK) »
Melba_schmelba originally I had what I considered low Welsh ethnicity.  Now I have too much!  Then I found that ancestry included part of Somerset in their calculations (2 great grandparents from Keynsham) so I relaxed a bit.  Now if they could only explain to me why my Scottish count is so high.  Surely itís not because I married a Scot and like the bagpipes. 🤪🤪🤪
It's true the Scotland DNA grouping seems a bit less accurate than the Welsh one on Ancestry and yo-yos up and down for a lot of people :D. I think it could be because the Scottish are a lot more Anglo-Saxon that they'd like to admit - most of the lowlands used to be Anglo-Saxon kingdoms and the Scots language is actually a variant of English :o!
https://dsl.ac.uk/about-scots/what-is-scots/

I'm no Scot Nat (British and proud of it) and without wishing to get into an argument, you could as easily say English is a variant of Scots.

As the link provided states modern English and Scots do indeed both derive from the same root (Anglo Saxon) but they have been separate languages since at least the 14th Century. Burns did not write in a dialect or variant of English - he wrote in Scots. Just as Shakespeare wrote in English, not a Scots dialect. (And if we're honest, as modern readers we need those footnotes to explain all the strange words to understand either of them fully.)

What is true is that Scots is closer to English than it is to Gaelic.
Apologies Albufera, I didn't mean to upset anyone by what I said. I suppose, when researching my own Scottish ancestry, I was surprised to discover that Scots was mainly a Germanic language with the same root as English. One of the first words to come to my attention in an 18th century will was Umquhile = 'the late'  :) This was used in England but had gone out of use much earlier.

https://dsl.ac.uk/entry/dost/umquhile

No apologies necessary, it's just a pet peeve of mine.
Howie (Riccarton Ayrshire)
McNeil/ McNeill (Argyll)
Main (Airdrie Lanarkshire)
Grant (Lanarkshire and Bo'ness)
More (Lanarkshire)
Ure (Polmont)
Colligan (Lanarkshire)
Drinnan (New Zealand)