Author Topic: great grandmother Louise O'Sullivan how so many names  (Read 429 times)

Offline Balewis

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great grandmother Louise O'Sullivan how so many names
« on: Friday 13 October 23 16:33 BST (UK) »
Hi
I am trying to find out more about my great grandmother Louise (or maybe known as Bridget) O’Sullivan born about 1868 in Youghal, Cork. I am having trouble tracking down her birth and marriage certificate. (probably because she keeps changing her name).

Family story goes that Louise was a bit of a mystery and suddenly appeared with her daughter Leonora King. The 1901 and 1911 census has Louise living with my great grandfather Alfred Johnson at Sydenham Grove, Aston, Birmingham. The 1911 census has them married for 16 years. Although so far, I can’t find a marriage certificate.

To add to the confusion, she alternates her maiden name been O’Sullivan and O’Brien on the birth certificates for the children she has with Alfred. They had 5 children together. Alfred, William Florence, Arthur and Walter.

As far as I can tell Louise (now showing up as Bridget O’Sullivan) was previously married to Charles King and lived in Enfield, Middlesex in 1891. (which is the year that Leonora was born).

Any light that you can share on Louisa/Bridget would be appreciated.

Offline Sinann

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Re: great grandmother Louise O'Sullivan how so many names
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 14 October 23 22:37 BST (UK) »
Do you know if Charles King was in the army?
There is a marriage of a Charles King West Surrey Regt to Bridget O’Sullivan in Cork 1886
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10832/5950751.pdf

Offline AMBLY

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Re: great grandmother Louise O'Sullivan how so many names
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 14 October 23 23:05 BST (UK) »
Posting as just typed up - matching Sinann's post/link:

MARRIAGE:  6 Feb 1886, Cork, Ireland, in Discese of Cork, Cloyne & Ross, Parish Church of St Louth, City of Cork
Charles King, full age, Bachelor, Corporal, West Surrey Regt. Of Military Barracks Cork. Father: George Augustus King, Gardener.
Bridget O'Sullivan, full age, Spinster, of Morrisons Quay, Cork. Father:  Michael O'Sullivan, Farmer
Witness: Chas Cole. Mary Best

BIRTH: Walter Charles King MMS O'Sullivan
Registered Dec Qtr 1888 Edmonton

BIRTH: Leonora Bridgie King. Mms O'SULLIVAN ( born either late 1889 or early 1890)
Registered Mar Qtr 1890 Edmonton

1891:  1 Red Burn Cottages, Enfield, Middlesex
Head: Charles KING 29, Machinist Small Arms Fcty, b Enfield Mdx
Wife: Bridget King 24, b Ireland
Son: William A King 4, b Ireland
Son: Walter C King 2, b Enfield
Dau: Leonard B King (sic) b Enfield

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Online Dundee

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Re: great grandmother Louise O'Sullivan how so many names
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 14 October 23 23:09 BST (UK) »
Just adding William's birth:

William Joseph (William A. in 1891)

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02568/1844058.pdf

Debra  :)


Offline Neale1961

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Re: great grandmother Louise O'Sullivan how so many names
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 14 October 23 23:20 BST (UK) »
If she was full age on her marriage to King, she must have been born before 1868

A possible - This birth puts her age at much the same as King ----
Bridget Sullivan birth 12 Nov 1864 Youghal
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03593/2324962.pdf

ADDED_ I see now that Charles King was actually baptised in Oct 1861. So approx three years older than Bridget (if that birth in 1864 is correct.)
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: great grandmother Louise O'Sullivan how so many names
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 15 October 23 00:08 BST (UK) »
Following on.......

1901:  201 Dawlish Road, Selly Oak, Kings Norton, Worcestershire
Head: Charles King 39, Railway Clerk, b Enfield, Mdx
Elizabeth King 21, b Longton, Staffs
Arthur J King 14, Cycle factory Hand, b Ireland
Son: Frances G King 6,  b Birmingham, Warwickshire
Dau: Florence E King 3 b Erdington, Warwickshire
Son: Charles A King, 1 mo, b Bournbrook, Worcestershire
Sister/Visitor: Eliza King, 45, widow, b Enfield Mdx
Boarder: Arthur Stonier, 14, Cycle Factory Hand, b Longton, Staffs

BIRTH 1888 - Walter Charles KING, mms O'SULLIVAN, Registered Edmonton, Dec Qtr 1888
BIRTH 1895 - Francis George KING, mms O.SULLIVAN, registered KINGS NORTON, Mar Qtr 1895
BIRTH: 1897 - Florence Elizabeth KING mms O'SULLIVAN, registered ASTON, Sep Qtr 1897

Think  "Arthur J"  aged 14 in 1901 -must be the same "William A" age 4 in 1891 ( great find Debra! for birth, as William J )

Here's the same family as 1901, in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7B4-TC3

Note: The son William King aged 24, born Cork, Machinist, Gun works (echo fathers occupation in 1891)

And here are BIRTHS of other children
1901: BIRTH : Harold Charles Augustus KING,mms STONIER, registered Jun Qtr Kings Norton
1903: BIRTH - Wallace Stuart KING, mms STONIER, registered Jun Qtr Kings Norton
1909: BIRTH - Cyril John KING, mms STONIER, registered Sep Qtr Kings Norton
1910: BIRTH: Kathleen Ellen KING, mms STONIER, registered Dec Qtr Kings Norton

Unable to find a marriage  KING STONIER? Can anyone see it? (would be 'bigamous, if occurring whilst Bridget were still living, so possibly not one to be found). Ditto why no marriage of Bridget/Louise to JOHNSON?

So it appears, Bridget King , nee O'Sullivan parted ways with her husband Charles King  between 1895 and 1901 - and took only her daughter Leonora with her - leaving  (in unknown circumstances) her sons William & Francis  (Walter may have died) and daughter Florence behind

Both she and Charles appear to have formed new relationships in the nature of marriage at around about the same time frame   - this may somehow explain Bridget's alternative names, Louise , O'Brien?  if she felt she needed to hide her past or unmarried status - especially if registering the JOHNSON children as legitimate when they were not?

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: great grandmother Louise O'Sullivan how so many names
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 15 October 23 01:24 BST (UK) »
Added:

BAPTISM
At St Matthew, Enfield - Ponders End Middlesex
Walter Charles King
Born 2 Sept 1888, Baptised  28 Oct 1888
To: Charles & Bridget King
Father: Labourer
Abode:  Stanley Rd

BAPTISM
At St Matthew, Enfield - Ponders End Middlesex
Leonora Bridgie King
Born 2 Feb 1890, Baptised 5 May 1890
To: Charles & Bridget King
Father: Machinist
Abode: 12 Stanley Street

BAPTISM
At St Matthew, Enfield - Ponders End Middlesex
Francis George King
Born 8 Jan 1895, Baptised  21 Mar 1897
To: Charles & Bridget King
Father: Clerk
Abode: 32 Chester St (address maybe error by Cleric - a batch of baptisms same day. The 10 mth old baby baptised after them was same address)

BAPTISM
At St Peter and Paul, Aston,m Warwickshire
Florence Elizabeth King
Baptised 9 Jan 1898,
To: Charles & Bridget King
Father: Clerk
Abode: 22 Windsor Place, Holdford Road


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: great grandmother Louise O'Sullivan how so many names
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 15 October 23 01:50 BST (UK) »
Following on from this birth
Bridget Sullivan birth 12 Nov 1864 Youghal


Michael SULLIVAN marriage 15 May 1859 Youghal, Cork to Marg’t FLAHERTY
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000631897#page/70/mode/1up     (page 70)

Children born Youghal (diocese – Cloyne):
•   Mary 1859
•   Bridget 1864
•   Ellen 1867
•   Thomas 1869
•   Johanna 1871
•   Michael 1873
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Balewis

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Re: great grandmother Louise O'Sullivan how so many names
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 15 October 23 18:47 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the information this is a great help.

When I look at the 1901 census I think that the OCR software has made a mistake and that Arthur J is in fact William, which would tie up with the family tree.

I am a bit confused about the dates of the baptisms for Francis George King (born 8 Jan 1895, baptised 21 Mar 1897) and Florence King (baptised 9 Jan 1898). As Bridget (Louisa) gave birth to Alfred Henry Johnson 17 Oct 1897 and she living Poplar Road, Sparkhill, Birmingham according to his birth certificate. Not sure when Florence was born?

I agree that Walter Charles King has probably died young. There are two record which could fit.  One that died age 3 in Oct/Nov/Dec 1891 Marylebone, London and the other died aged 9 Jul/Aug/Sep 1898, Warwickshire.

I wonder why she would only take one child with her.