Author Topic: Newbie with a puzzle to solve  (Read 1189 times)

Offline lucemac_

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Newbie with a puzzle to solve
« on: Tuesday 17 October 23 14:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Friends,

New to genealogy and the bug has already bitten. I’ve spent the past few weeks trawling Ancestry to look at my father’s side and so far I am finding his grandfather’s parentage somewhat of an enigma.

I’d really love some help with suggestions of resources I could go to for further research and more general help with social history, what was common at the time etc etc.

Grab a cup of tea while I try to surmise: The individuals I’m interested in are my great-grandfather, George Charles Chiell and his parents.

Here’s what I know based on public historical records:

1911 Census: George is 14/15 and living with his mother and step father, who is named as such on the census. His mother is Clara Page and his stepfather is Frederick Page

1895: he is born at 25 Benwell Road. I obtained a digital image of the birth entry from GRO which names “George Chiell” as his father. The mother was the informant, and she is named as “Clara Chiell (Tovey)”

Rewind back in time ⏪ Searches on Clara Tovey

1871 census: Living in Mile End with her family, she is a baby

1881 census: Living in Islington with her family as a young girl

1891 census: A Clara Tovey is named as a servant for a family in Brixton. Here she is Aged 19, so she could’ve lied to her employers about her age by a year or two. Annoyingly place of birth on the census just says “London” whereas the others say “Lambeth”.

1895: she gives birth to her son at an address in Islington

1902: Marriage takes place between Clara Tovey and Frederick Page

Searches on the father’s name:

Searches for George CHIELL born 1870 +/- 10 years don’t throw up much, but I did find a record for a George CHEAL.

1891 census: George CHEAL is living in Brixton with his family just a 20 minute walk away from where Clara Tovey is working as a domestic servant as per the 1891 census which names her.

1891 census has George CHEAL’s occupation as a “Billiard Marker” - so one can assume he is going into wealthy families' homes and gentlemen’s clubs - places that might have billiards rooms and billiard tables to basically mark or re-mark the lines on the tables.

I’ve not yet found any record of a marriage between Clara Tovey or a George Chiell / Cheal

In 1922, George Charles Chiell (my great grandfather) marries his first wife, Edith Kate Quested/Questad. On the marriage certificate he names Frederick Chiell as his father.

Here are my questions that I would love to find some answers to:   :)

1) Is it unreasonable to think that at some point between 1891 and 1895 George Cheal and Clara Tovey met, either by him coming into her place of work or while about their business in the community of Brixton? In 1891 she was 19, he was 22.

2) Is it unreasonable to think she got pregnant out of wedlock? I would like to think this was because of a passionate love affair but if it was, why didn’t they marry? Could it be that George Cheal forced himself upon Clara?

3) Is it unreasonable to think she went back close to where her family were living (Islington) to have the child?

4) Could 25 Benwell Road, Islington be a kind of ‘safe house’ for young women to birth their children? How can I find who was living in that address or what that address was being used for at that time?

5) Was it common in 1895 for mothers to register the birth of children? Or was this “a man’s job?”

6) What “proof” of marriage (if any) would she have to provide to the registrar? Could she have lied about being married to George Cheal to avoid social stigma?

7) If she wasn’t well educated, could she have given the name “Cheal” to the registrar and not knowing how it was spelt - hence how it became “Chiell”?

If anyone can help with any of the general social history questions as well as the more technical genealogy questions of where to try and seek answers, that would be a huge help!!  ;D

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Newbie with a puzzle to solve
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 18 October 23 13:03 BST (UK) »
Welcome to RootsChat.  :)

Looking at your questions first:

Quote
1) Is it unreasonable to think that at some point between 1891 and 1895 George Cheal and Clara Tovey met, either by him coming into her place of work or while about their business in the community of Brixton? In 1891 she was 19, he was 22.

No - entirely possible

Quote
2) Is it unreasonable to think she got pregnant out of wedlock? I would like to think this was because of a passionate love affair but if it was, why didn’t they marry? Could it be that George Cheal forced himself upon Clara?

Lots of babies born out of wedlock at this time and in many cases, the parents did not marry.  Speaking from my own family research, two sets of my great grandparents did not marry.  In one case it was a deliberate choice, in the other it was because great grannie was already married to someone else, with no possibility of divorce.

Quote
3) Is it unreasonable to think she went back close to where her family were living (Islington) to have the child?

No, that's generally what happened.

Quote
4) Could 25 Benwell Road, Islington be a kind of ‘safe house’ for young women to birth their children? How can I find who was living in that address or what that address was being used for at that time?

In 1891 and 1901, it seems to be a perfectly ordinary house, inhabited by a respectable family.  No servants listed.

Quote
5) Was it common in 1895 for mothers to register the birth of children? Or was this “a man’s job?”

From certificates I have from around this date, it's a 50-50 split.

Quote
6) What “proof” of marriage (if any) would she have to provide to the registrar? Could she have lied about being married to George Cheal to avoid social stigma?

None. And yes.

Quote
7) If she wasn’t well educated, could she have given the name “Cheal” to the registrar and not knowing how it was spelt - hence how it became “Chiell”?

If Clara was illiterate, then she would have been unable to check what the registrar had written.  Generally, in such cases, they wrote what they heard, which is why flexibility (and imagination) may be required to find entries in the register.

Worrying though is the fact that from the 1881 census information, there seem to be three Clara Toveys in the London area born 1867 - 72.  Fathers were Charles, William Henry and James.

I've found the 1902 marriage of Clara to Frederick Page.  She states that her father was Charles Tovey a comb maker.  Clara was apparently born in 1867.

Are you sure that the Clara who is a servant in 1891 in Brixton with the age out by a couple of years is Clara who had baby George?  I think it more likely that she is the Clara lodging at 23 Dorinda St Islington  (RG12/160/20 p 34).  Her parents Charles and Mary are in Wandsworth.

A little more untangling to do.

Nell



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Offline Spelk

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Re: Newbie with a puzzle to solve
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 18 October 23 13:24 BST (UK) »
Loks like you are gong to need DNA test to prove or disprove the father. There should be some discounts on offer around "black Friday" and or "black Monday".

Offline Brie

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Re: Newbie with a puzzle to solve
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 18 October 23 13:45 BST (UK) »
I'm afraid I'm not helping with your research but I'd always understood a billiard marker to be the person who scored the games in a club and generally acted as a servant/waiter to the clients. Usually a youngster's job.

Of course someone may quickly disabuse me :)

Brie


Offline Spelk

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Re: Newbie with a puzzle to solve
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 18 October 23 13:56 BST (UK) »
Billiards Marker or Maker?

Offline JenB

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Re: Newbie with a puzzle to solve
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 18 October 23 14:22 BST (UK) »
I'm afraid I'm not helping with your research but I'd always understood a billiard marker to be the person who scored the games in a club and generally acted as a servant/waiter to the clients. Usually a youngster's job.

This is the definition in the Dictionary of occupational terms

billiard marker
keeps account of scores made by players and indicates them on scoring board; in public billiard hall, allocates tables to players and provides them with balls, cues, chalk and sometimes with refreshment; coaches learners, plays with patrons, and collects fees fer use of tables.

http://doot.spub.co.uk/idx.php?letter=B

Billiards Marker or Maker?

The original image definitely says marker.
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Offline Pinetree

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Re: Newbie with a puzzle to solve
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 18 October 23 16:44 BST (UK) »
On 1891 and 1901 census returns John Williams aged 46 in 1891, b. Shoreditch, inspector of insurance agents and his family are living at 25 Benwell Road, Islington.

I don’t know if that helps at all but it does look as if it was a private residence.

Pinetree
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Offline jonwarrn

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Re: Newbie with a puzzle to solve
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 18 October 23 17:15 BST (UK) »
Couple of workhouse admissions in Southwark in 1903 for George Tovey
One says born 25.11.95. Another one transcribed as Govey by ancestry.

Possibly also 2 January 1897, Camberwell, Geo Tovey, born 1895, child of (blank), and, I think, an unnamed male child, age 9 days.

Offline sgf28

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Re: Newbie with a puzzle to solve
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 18 October 23 17:19 BST (UK) »
1902 Marriage for Frederick Page and Clara Tovey:

19th May 1902 St Pauls Southwark

Frederick Page, 32, bachelor, paper hanger. Father: James Page, paperhanger
Clara Tovey,32, SPINSTER. Father: Charles Tovey, comb maker.