Abbott Family Mysteries

[emsa]

Hi,

I have hit a brick-wall whilst researching my great-great-grandmother's family. Her name was Ada Helen(a) Abbott (later Marshall) and she was born into a Jewish family in ca. 1865 in Hoxton/Shoreditch.

Her father's name was David Alfred Prosper Abbott (according to her CofE marriage record to Henry Marshall in 1887). The 1871 census just lists him as Prosper Abbott.

I have attached the relevant 1871 and 1891 census pages.

Here are the mysteries:
According to my gran, Ada's mum died when she was about 3. This would mean that the Helen on the 1871 census is not her mother. Further backed up by the fact that Ellen in the 1891 census is most likely the same person as Helen from 1871 (similar birth year and place). I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find Jewish birth/marriage/death records? This might help me find Ada's mother as so far I haven't been able to find anything.

Mystery no. 2: Alice Abbott is not listed on the 1871 census despite being born before Ernest, who is. Any ideas why a 3 year old would be missed off the census?

Thanks in advance!

[garstonite]

not all trees are correct -looks like her mother was Emma Williams - a warm welcome to Rootschat  Emsa

Alfred Prosper Abbott

Born about 1817 - Shoreditch, London, England, United Kingdom
Deceased
 
Parents
Thomas ABBOTT ca 1792-
? ?
 
Spouses and children
With Emma WILLIAMS 1831- Born in 1831 - Burslem, Staffordshire, England

M Charles James ABBOTT 1859-1894

so - maybe look for a death of Emma Abbott ??
..............................................................................
https://gw.geneanet.org/psgrasse?n=abbott&oc=&p=alfred+prosper

 

[mckha489]

Welcome to Rootschat.

You will find we go all around the mulberry bush to try and solve these things. And sometimes we will be posting things you already know, but don’t worry about that.  Sometimes it is necessary to fill in a picture and trigger a lateral thought that gets to solve the problem.

So I will make a start here.

I notice the 1891 census has Ellen Abbott with Alice & Ernest living with Julia HARRIS who is Ellen’s sister.
So Ellen is nee HARRIS

Looking at the children in 1871

Edwin age 8 in 1871
Is he this birth?

ABBOT, EDWIN    mother’s maiden name JOHNSON
GRO Reference: 1863  J Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 123

Ernest age 9 mths in 1871
ABBOTT, ERNEST,   mmn HARRISS
GRO Reference: 1870, S Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 316


So I would think this is Alice
ABBOT, Alice. mmn HARRIS
GRO Reference: 1866 J Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C page 507

Of course you would need to (and perhaps you already have) buy the birth certificates. - Hopefully you know you can get a digital image for £2.50.

Anyway

That suggests to me that there was wife 1. who died or left before the birth of Alice.
I suspect she died in childbirth with Ada and that is why Ada’s birth didn’t get to be registered.

There is a marriage 16th June 1862 Holy Trinity, Hoxton
Alfred ABBOT age 32, Bachelor a Cigar Dealer, 17 Edward St,  father Mashod ABBOT  druggist - deceased
Mary Ann JOHNSON 22 spinster, same address, father Joseph JOHNSON, Foreman at Saw mills.
witnesses William Clark, E. Clark.

Mashod is an unusual name.

I think the birth certificate of Edwin is essential.

Regarding Jewish records
there is Jewishgen.com

[mckha489]

Nothing to do with Ada but..

North Middlesex Chronicle
28 February 1874

ALLEGED EMBEZZLEMENT

David Prosper Abbott, 47, a traveller, of 18 ,Salisbury-Street, New North Road, Hoxton, was charged at Clerkenwell, with embezzling on the 9th ult, £2 12s, received by him for an on account of Messrs Samuel and Lewis Solomon, his employers. Mr Lewis solicitor, of Ely-place, Holborn, prosecuted, and Mr. Ricketts, solicitor of Frederick-street, Gray’s Inn-road defended. Mr Lewis now stated that since the prisoner had been out on bail overtures had been made to the prosecutors to settle the matter, and they, taking into consideration that the prisoner had a wife and children depending on him, would, with the permission of the magistrate, withdraw from the charge. Mr Cooke allowed the course suggested to be adopted,, and discharged the prisoner with a caution.

[mckha489]

Looking at a tree and seeing that potentially there are multiple wives who didn't all die
perhaps Mary Ann Abbott death 1868 Shoreditch is Mary Ann nee JOHNSON?   Dec qtr 1c 154

[emsa]

Thank you all for the incredibly helpful replies! Turns out Mary Ann Johnson was mostly likely Ada's mother and she died of typhoid fever in 1868.

[mckha489]

This talk might be of interest to you

https://members.sog.org.uk/events/65379eb933d2260008b99509/description?ticket=65379eb933d2260008b9950a

[Neale1961]

It looks as if Alfred and Mary Ann were living together before they were married in 1862.

1861 census St Leonards Shoreditch
Alfred Abbott, head, 31, married, cigar dealer, born London city
Mary Ann Abbot, wife, 28, married, milliner, born Hornsey Middlesex.

(Her age on the census doesn’t agree with that on her marriage, or her death)

[mckha489]

It looks as if Alfred and Mary Ann were living together before they were married in 1862.

1861 census St Leonards Shoreditch
Alfred Abbott, head, 31, married, cigar dealer, born London city
Mary Ann Abbot, wife, 28, married, milliner, born Hornsey Middlesex.

(Her age on the census doesn’t agree with that on her marriage, or her death)

A tree has her birth reg attached. I think they are likely correct
Born 27 March 1841 father Joseph a sawyer, mother Mary Ann formerly Ballmane. (Mother is informant)
11 Dean Street, Hoxton, Old Town