Author Topic: John Vernon - born Yorkshire died 1915 as member of Canadian forces  (Read 307 times)

Offline Darnity

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John Vernon - born Yorkshire died 1915 as member of Canadian forces
« on: Tuesday 07 May 24 17:37 BST (UK) »
A John Vernon married Alice Gill Rotherham RD Jun Q 1909

Dec Q 1909 Rotherham RD the birth of a son Gilbert is registered.

1911 census John, Alice and Gilbert are at Chatsworth Road Rotherham - John, yob 1887, is a coal miner, born Rotherham while Alice (1884) and Gilbert (1910) are shown born Raworth.

3Q 1919 an Alice VERNON marries Henry J Cole Rotherham RD

1921 what appears to be this Alice, now Mrs Cole, is at 29 Castle Avenue Rotherham but her pob is now Parkgate, YKS, with son Gilbert, pob Ryecroft, YKS shown as Henry's step-son, and Henry Cole born Corsham Wilts an out of work steel worker.

1939 Alice and Henry are at 5 Castle Avenue Rotherham.

So what happened to her first husband John Vernon to enable her to marry Mr Cole?

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/412310/john-vernon/ shows a Private John Vernon service no 111499 of the Canadian Mounted Rifles B Coy 6th Regt died 10th October 1915 aged 29 and commemorated at Rotherham Moorgate cemy.

There is the info that he was the "Husband of Alice Cole (formerly Vernon), of 29, Castle Avenue, Rotherham."

Searching newspapers Kentish Express and Ashford Observer of 16th October 1915 it seems that John Vernon was staying overnight at a hotel in Ashford, he was stationed at Caesar's Camp, Shorncliffe, and fell from an upper window and died of his injuries.

He was a shoemaker's machinist and belonged to Rotherham, YKS and had "joined at St John's NB". "He was married and his wife and child have come to England from Canada."

The South Eastern Gazette of 19th October tells us that he "went out to St John's about eight years ago" which doesn't make sense if he was in Rotherham in 1909 to marry and for the 1911 census.

Searching Library and Archives Canada his enlistment form is available and this shows he has previously serviced with "something dragoons"

Does anyone have any idea what Dragoons this might have been?

We can't currently find any records relating to journeys between England and Canada.

I'd welcome another pair of eyes looking at this as I'm wondering if we have the wrong Alice Gill or wrong John Vernon. Thanks

(Tried to attach the Dragoons bit but it failed, will try again later)
Gypsy DRAPERs, children of Billy and Mary - Ellen,Darnity,Spencer,Billy Jnr,Kisby,Ellick
Descendants of Fred and Esther (Garrett) WHITLOCK - Wavendon, Woburn Sands area
Descendants of George and Barbara (Willis) SUTTON - Earls Barton and Nether Heyford
BISSELL - Hanslope, New Bradwell, Bucks and Aston, Birmingham area
Lavinia DRAPER died 1840 Cranfield
Gypsies in the Bow Brickhill and Beds/Bucks border areas

Offline rosie99

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Re: John Vernon - born Yorkshire died 1915 as member of Canadian forces
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 07 May 24 17:48 BST (UK) »
Alice's first marriage show her as age 25 - father Solomon Gill occ Miner
John Vernon was 22 - father Joseph Vernon
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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: John Vernon - born Yorkshire died 1915 as member of Canadian forces
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 07 May 24 17:52 BST (UK) »
Alice & Gilbert arriving in Boston, Massachusetts to join husband in July 1912:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/2701916:8745
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Offline MollyC

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Re: John Vernon - born Yorkshire died 1915 as member of Canadian forces
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 07 May 24 19:55 BST (UK) »
As an aside, Ryecroft and Parkgate are both suburbs of Rawmarsh.  Raworth is not recognised, is it a mis-copying of Rawmarsh?


Offline Ashtone

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Re: John Vernon - born Yorkshire died 1915 as member of Canadian forces
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 07 May 24 19:55 BST (UK) »
Searching Library and Archives Canada his enlistment form is available and this shows he has previously serviced with "something dragoons"
Does anyone have any idea what Dragoons this might have been?

The New Brunswick Dragoons originated in Saint John, New Brunswick on 2 March 1911, when the '28th "New Brunswick" Dragoons' were authorized to be formed.

Offline Darnity

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Re: John Vernon - born Yorkshire died 1915 as member of Canadian forces
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 08 May 24 08:48 BST (UK) »
Thank you Ashtone, that make sense. So it looks like he had some previous experience with these Dragoons when he enlisted for the Canadian forces in 1915.

Thank you MollyC for the local knowledge of names in the area.

Thank you ShaunJ for finding Alice and Gilbert joining John across the pond.

It seems people from what we would think of as humble backgrounds travelled further and more often than we might think.

So we appear to have John going to Canada - maybe looking for better job prospects - sometime before 1909 and potentially around 1903-ish from the "8 years ago" in 1915 - and he joining the local Dragoons.

He then must return to the Rotherham area and gets together with Alice, who appears to be pregnant, from Gilbert's dob, when she marries John in 1909.

John appears to stay in YKS until the 1911 Census is taken as he is with Alice and Gilbert then and then returns to Canada and they follow him in 1912.

1915 he enlists and is shipped to England sometime before October when we find him in Kent.

But Alice and Gilbert have returned sometime in or before 1915 as they are here when he dies and the inquest is held quickly after his death.

Quite an adventure for all of them and an interesting story - thanks again everyone for your help with this one.
Gypsy DRAPERs, children of Billy and Mary - Ellen,Darnity,Spencer,Billy Jnr,Kisby,Ellick
Descendants of Fred and Esther (Garrett) WHITLOCK - Wavendon, Woburn Sands area
Descendants of George and Barbara (Willis) SUTTON - Earls Barton and Nether Heyford
BISSELL - Hanslope, New Bradwell, Bucks and Aston, Birmingham area
Lavinia DRAPER died 1840 Cranfield
Gypsies in the Bow Brickhill and Beds/Bucks border areas

Offline MollyC

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Re: John Vernon - born Yorkshire died 1915 as member of Canadian forces
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 08 May 24 10:35 BST (UK) »
Streetview, Castle Avenue, 2008.  Only the evens side was still standing, which has since been demolished.   http://www.rootschat.com/links/01t5q/

Chatsworth Road (mis-spelled in this edition) east of the schools.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/125650729#zoom=5&lat=6584&lon=11915&layers=BT

There is now a new primary school on the site.
Note: Jordan Colliery on the west edge of this map sheet.

Offline CraigM63

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Re: John Vernon - born Yorkshire died 1915 as member of Canadian forces
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 15 May 24 19:21 BST (UK) »
This could potentially be John crossing the US/Canada border in 1911, given ShaunJ's discovery of Alice and Gilbert arriving in Boston, Massachusetts in 1912. His last place of residence is given as what looks like Marshes, Rotherham, Yorkshire. The form also names a Mary Vernon, living at 12 Chatsworth Road as his nearest relative or friend in the country he came from.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK3Y-5SHX

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: John Vernon - born Yorkshire died 1915 as member of Canadian forces
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 15 May 24 19:54 BST (UK) »
numerous Canadian Papers - same snippet.

Star-Phoenix
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Wed, 13 Oct 1915
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/star-phoenix/147447716/

The Victoria Daily Times
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada 
Wed, 13 Oct 1915
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-victoria-daily-times/147447917/

Canada, Virtual War Memorial Index, 1900-2014

John Vernon Rank   Private
Birth Date   29 Oct 1885 Death Date   10 Oct 1915
Cemetery   ROTHERHAM (MOORGATE) CEMETERY ; Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Grave Reference   N2. N.G. 163.
Force   Army Unit   Canadian Mounted Rifles
Division   "B" Coy. 6th Service Number   111499

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/en/remembrance/memorials/canadian-virtual-war-memorial/detail/412310?John%20Vernon

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