Author Topic: Scottish naming patterns  (Read 563 times)

Offline g eli

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Scottish naming patterns
« on: Tuesday 14 May 24 20:24 BST (UK) »
I am looking at a family with children born 1826 through 1844.I am trying to find out more about their parents, are naming patterns standard or are they somewhat arbitrary depending on relationships with grandparents.
Butler Derbyshire & Nottinghamshire
Targoose Lincolnshire : Targus the rest of England
Sollery:Staffordshire & Nottinghamshire
Saunders,  Phillips: Wiltshire
Oldknow: Derbyshire & Nottinghamshire
Hirons or Hiorns: Friswell: Whitmore: Warwickshire
Tanser: Leicestershire & Warwickshire
Kidger: Buxton: Cramp:Leicestershire
Goodall:Griffin: Ford:Minton:Derbyshire
Cormack:Dunn: Scotland
Taylor:Nottinghamshire
Fletcher Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire Staffordshire

Offline GR2

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Re: Scottish naming patterns
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 14 May 24 21:04 BST (UK) »
The so-called traditional naming pattern has the first son called after the paternal grandfather, the second son after the maternal grandfather and the third son after the father: the first daughter called after the maternal grandmother, the second daughter after the paternal grandmother, and the third daughter after the mother.

However, this is not always strictly adhered to and children can be called after friends, neighbours, more distant relations, an employer, the minister, the schoolmaster, the doctor etc. Again, if the father and both grandfathers are all called John, it throws everything out.

Offline g eli

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Re: Scottish naming patterns
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 14 May 24 22:00 BST (UK) »
Thank you GR2 for your reply. I thought that was probably how it went in some families.
 Would a grandfather be excluded, the reason I am asking is that her marriage notice gives her father as Hugh but none of her 7 sons were called this.
Butler Derbyshire & Nottinghamshire
Targoose Lincolnshire : Targus the rest of England
Sollery:Staffordshire & Nottinghamshire
Saunders,  Phillips: Wiltshire
Oldknow: Derbyshire & Nottinghamshire
Hirons or Hiorns: Friswell: Whitmore: Warwickshire
Tanser: Leicestershire & Warwickshire
Kidger: Buxton: Cramp:Leicestershire
Goodall:Griffin: Ford:Minton:Derbyshire
Cormack:Dunn: Scotland
Taylor:Nottinghamshire
Fletcher Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire Staffordshire

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Scottish naming patterns
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 14 May 24 22:13 BST (UK) »
Maybe she didn't get on with her father? Or maybe there was a child named Hugh whose baptism wasn't recorded and who died very young - are there any gaps in the family?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Online brigidmac

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Re: Scottish naming patterns
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 15 May 24 10:41 BST (UK) »

Could the Hugh named on her marriage have been a stepfather ? Have you found her baptism ?

Are other children named in the traditional.way ..after her husband's father and her mother .

I agree with forfarian you would have to look for births and deaths of other children between censuses

Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline AngusMcCoatup

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Re: Scottish naming patterns
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 15 May 24 17:57 BST (UK) »
I don't think there are any hard and fast rules about naming. What we found was on one side of the family tree it does look like the "traditional" naming convention is followed with the eldest son being named after the father so that there are several generations all with the same name.

However on another side of the tree, it is a bit hit and miss whether that same naming convention is used with seemingly random names cropping up, names missing generations then reappearing but there's no evidence to suggest they were being named after a grand parent. I guess names come in and out of fashion which could have an influence as well.

Or maybe there was a child named Hugh whose baptism wasn't recorded and who died very young - are there any gaps in the family?

I have come across instances where sometimes a child has died in infancy and the name is "reused" for the next child of the appropriate gender - perhaps this is a way to indicate they were naming the child after a parent/grandparent.

Offline g eli

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Re: Scottish naming patterns
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 15 May 24 21:30 BST (UK) »
Thank you everyone for your replies. This family is one of my blank walls, The family moved from Scotland to England around 1836, they are all on the 1841 census all born Scotland but of course no county and I can't even be sure that the oldest son is actually a son. I can find no baptisms for the four eldest.
Butler Derbyshire & Nottinghamshire
Targoose Lincolnshire : Targus the rest of England
Sollery:Staffordshire & Nottinghamshire
Saunders,  Phillips: Wiltshire
Oldknow: Derbyshire & Nottinghamshire
Hirons or Hiorns: Friswell: Whitmore: Warwickshire
Tanser: Leicestershire & Warwickshire
Kidger: Buxton: Cramp:Leicestershire
Goodall:Griffin: Ford:Minton:Derbyshire
Cormack:Dunn: Scotland
Taylor:Nottinghamshire
Fletcher Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire Staffordshire

Offline Rena

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Re: Scottish naming patterns
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 15 May 24 22:07 BST (UK) »
The so-called traditional naming pattern has the first son called after the paternal grandfather, the second son after the maternal grandfather and the third son after the father: the first daughter called after the maternal grandmother, the second daughter after the paternal grandmother, and the third daughter after the mother.

However, this is not always strictly adhered to and children can be called after friends, neighbours, more distant relations, an employer, the minister, the schoolmaster, the doctor etc. Again, if the father and both grandfathers are all called John, it throws everything out.

I agree with all you say.

Although I do have one line in my Lanarkshire tree where three boys were baptised "John".   The oldest son being known as;  "John", the second son as "Jack" and the third son is "wee Jackie".

For those who don't know "Jack" is the pet name for "John" and the English equivalent of the French/Norman given name of "Jacques".   
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Scottish naming patterns
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 16 May 24 14:11 BST (UK) »
For those who don't know "Jack" is the pet name for "John" and the English equivalent of the French/Norman given name of "Jacques".
Actually Jacques is the equivalent of James, originally Jacob, becoming Latin Jacobus, which mutated to Jacomus and became Giacomo in Italian and James in English.

John is the equivalent of French Jean, and Jack was almost always a pet name for John, via Jan, then Jankin, though it's now used as a separate name.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.