Brazil - Philipstown, Kings County - Ireland

[Milford Milk]

Hi All.
I have joined this group hoping I can find out more about my Nan Helen (Ellen) Brazil dob August 1880 of Philipstown, Kings County.
I didn't know her or my father but I do have his birth certificate which gives his mother's name etc. Through Ancestry I believe I have found Helen (or Ellen as shown in some records) her siblings and parents John Brazil and Ann Mulready . Other than this, my father was born in London in 1922 and sadly Helen passed away in London in 1937.

According to my dad's birth certificate they were married but I cannot find any records to confirm this. I have Irish census records that show Helen's family. I have searched for Helen (Ellen) in the 1921 census also burial records without luck. I have a death certificate (dod 25th Oct 1937 in London) for her but nothing on that mentions anything relating to her past. I have tried to research her on the internet for quite a few years without much luck. When searching Helen Brazil one name often appears on Ancestry and other family trees but this Helen Brazil was born, raised, married and died in London. This aside, there are no other persons of a certain age who could have given birth to my Father in 1922."

If anyone can help me explore Helen's (my) family roots further it would be as you can imagine absolutely wonderful.
Thank you in advance
Frank

[jorose]

Hi there,

In terms of finding the 1921 census - the 1922 birth certificate should have at an address of residence for the informant (may be her), and also an address for the birth if it was a different place. For home births these are often the same address. Have you checked that address in 1921 in case she's there but mistranscribed?

You indicate "According to my dad's birth certificate they were married" so you possibly have two names, Ellen/Helen plus her husband (or common-law husband possibly).

[jim1]

I can see just 1 male Brazil born Lambeth in 1922 mmn Brazil.
Alexis P L.
Is this him? or is it a different surname on the cert.

[ciderdrinker]

Good Morning
It looks like the parents Helen Mary Brazil and William Edward Potter are living together as man and wife on the Electoral records,
1937 21 Grand Parade Tottenham
1936 same
1934 10 Willoughby Road North Harringay
1933 23 Essex St Westminster both there despite William Edward being in Prison.
1931 23 Essex St  City of Westminster
1930 23 Essex St City of Westminster
1929 23 Essex St Westminster
1927 23 Essex St City of Westminster
1926 same
1925 105 Waterloo Road
1924  105 Quinn Square ,Waterloo Road
1921  together again 7 Ormonde Terrace Marylebone.
This is were they are on the 1921 census.
1919 38 Caledonian Road Islington William Edward Potter and Matilda  together.
1915 William Edward at 68 Barnaby Buildings Bermondsey

According to the 1939 index his wife Martha nee Smith who he married 27.3.1904 StPancras is still married .So the couple wouldn't be in a position to marry without a divorce which would be quite expensive and possibly cause a scandal locally. William  was working for the Post Office so his employers may not have been too happy.

He was convicted of stealing a parcel 3.3.1931 and sent to Maidstone prison until 2.1.1934.
He was 5'6" fresh complexion brown hair turning grey and brown eyes.He had a scar on his right hand. I'm not sure how Helen and your father would have managed during that time but it's nice to see they got back together .
Matilda and the children are indexed under Poller on the 1921 census and again she is married.(Matilda seems to have difficulty writing her surname).Last child 1917.They seem to have had 7 children in all. Matilda  died in 1953 .Born 1875 Wiltshire.
William and Helen must have got together c 1920.
I'll see what else I can find.


Ciderdrinker

[aghadowey]

I'm struggling to understand your first post so perhaps you could clarify the information/sources.

... my Nan Helen (Ellen) Brazil dob August 1880 of Philipstown, Kings County.
... Through Ancestry I believe I have found Helen (or Ellen as shown in some records) her siblings and parents John Brazil and Ann Mulready . Other than this, my father was born in London in 1922 and sadly Helen passed away in London in 1937.
...I have Irish census records that show Helen's family. I have searched for Helen (Ellen) in the 1921 census also burial records without luck. I have a death certificate (dod 25th Oct 1937 in London) for her but nothing on that mentions anything relating to her past.

Where did you find that birth? is it under Helen or Ellen? exact date and place of birth please.
Details from death certificate please- name and age.

Have you found Helen/Ellen in 1901 and 1911 census in Ireland or England? please give details so that we can also view the records.

[Kiltaglassan]

Welcome to RootsChat 

...my Nan Helen (Ellen) Brazil dob August 1880 of Philipstown, Kings County.

Ellen Brazil born 1 August 1880 at Killoneen townland. Her father John a labourer, her mother Eliza MN Massey. Philipstown is the Registration District.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02861/2048458.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/offaly/lower-philipstown/kilclonfert/mountbriscoe/killoneen/

1901 census - Ellen Brazil aged 20 yrs
House 5 in Circular (Philipstown, King's Co.)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/King_s_Co_/Philipstown/Circular/1470710/

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
Ellen Brazil 1880 Tullamore 1880
on https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namefm=ellen&namel=brazil&location=Tullamore&yyfrom=1880&yyto=1881&type=B&submit=Search
gives her mother as Eliza Massey but rest correct .Birth 1.8.1880.
Baptism also gives mother as Eliza nee Massey.

1901 Phillipstown
John Roman catholic 45 Blacksmith
Eliza 40
Ellen 20 domestic servant
Thomas 18 Blacksmith
Kate ? domestic servant
Mary 14 scholar
Maggie 11
Patrick 9
Alice 6 (on 1939 index London).
1911 married 34 years 9 children 8 alive.
Can't find a marriage for the parents of Helen
Ann Mulready seems to the grandmother.
John Brazil bapt  6.7.1851 s of Patrick and Ann nee Mulready/Mulmady  which fits with age 60 as in the 1911 census.

Helen Brazil onto London at St Pancras 1907
Helen Brazil born 1882 admitted  10.10.1907 discharged same day chamber maid father John Brazil Phillipstown address 33  Drummond Crescent. St Pancras Workhouse.
So I wonder what she was doing for the next 15 years ,presumably back into service.

No sign of a marriage or any other children.And of course she wouldn't be on the Electoral registers.And strangely nor the 1911 census

I can try to find a bit more about the Brazil family in Ireland or the Potters in London if you want,just say which direction you want to go in.
We are here to help ,just say what sort of thing you want.

Ciderdrinker

[Kiltaglassan]

1911 census - Brazil family
House 4 in Molesworth Street (Philipstown, King's Co.).
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/King_s_Co_/Philipstown/Molesworth_Street/560289/

Alice Brazil born 29 July 1894.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1894/02249/1846487.pdf

[Wexflyer]

Might want to note that Philipstown is now Daingean, and Kings Co. has long reverted to Offaly.