Arthur Terry and Alice Haymon

[0ctavia]

Hello Genealogy Gurus!
I’m currently researching one set of great grandparents. Arthur Ernest Terry and Alice Haymon. I am having trouble finding England 1911 and 1921 census records for them, and wondered if anyone would be willing to put their expertise into motion.
Arthur Ernest Terry was born on 29th March 1878 in Frant, Sussex. He was a bricklayer.
Alice Haymon was born about 1881 in Rolvenden Lane, Kent.
Arthur and Alice got married Jan 1916 in Lambeth, London, but their eldest son Arthur Ernest James Terry was born on 28th February 1910 - 6 years prior to the marriage. They went on to have a second son, Ronald in 1917.
A link to what I have so far is here:
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/197045059/person/412573080470/facts
This is driving me crazy! AAAAAAGHHHH! Why can’t I find them?

[ColC]

Arthur is with the family in Frant 1891 and below in 1901 but no census after for him or Alice.
 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9FR-482

Possible other records which may help others, who may not be able to view your tree on Ancestry?

Deaths Jun 1923
TERRY Arthur E age 44 Marylebone
1a 569

Deaths Dec 1972
TERRY ARTHUR ERNEST 28FE1910 CROYDON
5A 2003

Births Mar 1917  - No clear death England/Wales
Terry Ronald A W mother Haymon Croydon
2a 404

Colin

[bbart]

They really seem to be hiding well in the 1911 and 1921. 

I am just posting a few electoral lists that might be them, as addresses always help in newspaper searches:

1933, 1934, 1935, 1936, 1937 Surrey Electoral Registers
Surrey, Eastern  (Parish of Warlingham)  address: 24 Downsway
Terry, Arthur
Terry, Alice
Terry, Arthur (Junr.)

1938 Surrey Electoral Registers
Surrey, Eastern (Parish of Caterham)  address 203 Croydon Road
Terry, Arthur
Terry, Alice
Terry, Arthur (junr.)
Terry, Ronald Albert

In the 1939, Arthur Sr is listed as a widow, and as Alice is on the 1938 electoral, this is the only death that seems to fit:
Deaths Dec 1938
TERRY    Alice    59    Surrey Mid E.    2a   253

The following doesn't help, but more for family history interest:
There are several news articles in the 40's for a Ronald A W Terry being on the wrong side of the law, so if he had a name for being a troublemaker before that, it might explain the attached article.

The attached is referring to a prior news item, (Croydon Times  02 January 1937) where Sidney Charles Terry, age 20, of Downsway, Whyteleafe got hit on the head by a night watchman, while he was stealing wire and tools.

[bbart]

Births Mar 1917  - No clear death England/Wales
Terry Ronald A W mother Haymon Croydon
2a 404

I had no luck either, but the following, if the right people, might narrow it down?

Ronald A W Terry married Beatrice May Lawrence in 1938.
They are not together in the 1939.  Beatrice is in Sussex, and is noted as being expectant mother.
(Dec 1939 freebmd does show a daughter Terry born to a mmn Lawrence.  This may or may not be the one marrying in Kent in 1961 but I suspect it is.)
There is a Ronald A W Terry being sent to prison for 4 years in 1947 (news article). Part of his sentence was for attempting suicide due to being caught.
Beatrice remarries a Frederick Barnes in 1950.

[0ctavia]

Arthur is with the family in Frant 1891 and below in 1901 but no census after for him or Alice.
 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9FR-482

Possible other records which may help others, who may not be able to view your tree on Ancestry?

Deaths Jun 1923
TERRY Arthur E age 44 Marylebone
1a 569

Deaths Dec 1972
TERRY ARTHUR ERNEST 28FE1910 CROYDON
5A 2003

Births Mar 1917  - No clear death England/Wales
Terry Ronald A W mother Haymon Croydon
2a 404

Colin

Good point re not everyone being able to access Ancestry. Will remember that for the future and include more info. Thanks for the other info

[0ctavia]

They really seem to be hiding well in the 1911 and 1921. 

I am just posting a few electoral lists that might be them, as addresses always help in newspaper searches:

1933, 1934, 1935, 1936, 1937 Surrey Electoral Registers
Surrey, Eastern  (Parish of Warlingham)  address: 24 Downsway
Terry, Arthur
Terry, Alice
Terry, Arthur (Junr.)

1938 Surrey Electoral Registers
Surrey, Eastern (Parish of Caterham)  address 203 Croydon Road
Terry, Arthur
Terry, Alice
Terry, Arthur (junr.)
Terry, Ronald Albert

In the 1939, Arthur Sr is listed as a widow, and as Alice is on the 1938 electoral, this is the only death that seems to fit:
Deaths Dec 1938
TERRY    Alice    59    Surrey Mid E.    2a   253

The following doesn't help, but more for family history interest:
There are several news articles in the 40's for a Ronald A W Terry being on the wrong side of the law, so if he had a name for being a troublemaker before that, it might explain the attached article.

The attached is referring to a prior news item, (Croydon Times  02 January 1937) where Sidney Charles Terry, age 20, of Downsway, Whyteleafe got hit on the head by a night watchman, while he was stealing wire and tools.

Hello again 
Thank you - your info and pointers are really helpful. I appreciate you posting.

[0ctavia]

Ronald A W Terry married Beatrice May Lawrence in 1938.
They are not together in the 1939.  Beatrice is in Sussex, and is noted as being expectant mother.
(Dec 1939 freebmd does show a daughter Terry born to a mmn Lawrence.  This may or may not be the one marrying in Kent in 1961 but I suspect it is.)
There is a Ronald A W Terry being sent to prison for 4 years in 1947 (news article). Part of his sentence was for attempting suicide due to being caught.
Beatrice remarries a Frederick Barnes in 1950.

Ooooh! Interesting. Thank you bbart - another line of enquiry for me 

[bbart]

Regarding my theory that Ronald may have died around 1950 based on his possible wife remarrying...

Nope!  He is still around in 1951 (and going back to prison again...). Link below.

I still think it is likely that he married Beatrice; perhaps she got some kind of annulment.

(No subscription required to read the following):
https://www.newspapers.com/article/caterham-mirror-ronald-a-w-terry/148295482/

On another note, there is another half-brother of Arthur Ernest Terry that I didn't see showing on your tree -Stanley Kenneth Terry.  The timing of his birth coincides with the death of his mother.
He was actually born late 1908 but registered early 1909:

TERRY, STANLEY  KENNETH      SMITHERS     
GRO Reference: 1909  M Quarter in TICEHURST  Volume 02B  Page 87

In the 1911, he is shown as a foster child with Thomas B Luck and wife Julie, in Norfolk.
Even though the 1921 image clearly shows all the foster children with their own individual surnames, the index has put them all as surname "Luck" so you will have to search him that way.  He was one of "Dr Barnado's children".  If he was sent abroad, he was back in 1939,  but given that he spent at least ten years with the same family, he may have not been shipped anywhere.

Now, back to looking for Arthur Ernest and Alice in 1911 and 1921!

[0ctavia]

Regarding my theory that Ronald may have died around 1950 based on his possible wife remarrying...

Nope!  He is still around in 1951 (and going back to prison again...). Link below.

I still think it is likely that he married Beatrice; perhaps she got some kind of annulment.

(No subscription required to read the following):
https://www.newspapers.com/article/caterham-mirror-ronald-a-w-terry/148295482/

On another note, there is another half-brother of Arthur Ernest Terry that I didn't see showing on your tree -Stanley Kenneth Terry.  The timing of his birth coincides with the death of his mother.
He was actually born late 1908 but registered early 1909:

TERRY, STANLEY  KENNETH      SMITHERS     
GRO Reference: 1909  M Quarter in TICEHURST  Volume 02B  Page 87

In the 1911, he is shown as a foster child with Thomas B Luck and wife Julie, in Norfolk.
Even though the 1921 image clearly shows all the foster children with their own individual surnames, the index has put them all as surname "Luck" so you will have to search him that way.  He was one of "Dr Barnado's children".  If he was sent abroad, he was back in 1939,  but given that he spent at least ten years with the same family, he may have not been shipped anywhere.

Now, back to looking for Arthur Ernest and Alice in 1911 and 1921!

That news article is fascinating! I have found quite a few news articles of his escapades. I can add this to the collection.

Yes, I agree, I already had him down as marrying Beatrice from some research a family member did last year.

Regarding the half brother Stanley Kenneth. I'm not sure I'm fully understanding you. Whose mother are you referring to?  Arthur Ernest James Terry's mother died in 1938 (I've just updated that info on Ancestry).

A slightly different question. One of the news artciles states that Ronald was living in Tamworth Road, Croydon sometime beforre 30th June 1939. How do I find out which Enumeration District Tamworth Road comes under?