Author Topic: Did a Registrar travel to villages to collect info, please (& unusual wedding?)  (Read 2179 times)

Offline ARBELLA

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Thank you very much for recent help about registrations of births etc! I would be most grateful if you would help me avoid a possible serious error in my non-fiction prose book, Village... & if you could throw expert light on one marriage certificate.

First query... From 1848 to 1875, Dr Robert Eminson, a doctor based in the Lincolnshire village of Scotter, was the Registrar who recorded deaths & births of inhabitants I’ve researched in my own village, 8 miles away. I had assumed that all villagers would have to travel to Scotter to register births etc. From notes on the National Archives website, I now wonder if – before a change in the law in the 1870s? – the Registrar himself in fact travelled from Scotter to other villages, & collected information?

If so, I wonder how the death of one child, George Blow (certified, from typhoid) was registered by Dr Eminson on the same day the child died in 1856? (The details appeared on a certificate I recently posted on Rootschat.) The child’s mother, Mary Ann Blow, was co-habiting with a farm labourer. She would have had to walk 8 miles, or perhaps hire a cart, to reach Scotter. It is not obvious to me how else she could inform Dr Eminson of the death.  Is it likely that the Registrar was visiting, as the child’s doctor, when the boy died? (The boy was buried next day, at his mother’s home village, several miles away.)

Secondly, I would be most grateful for your thoughts on the attached marriage certificate for Mary Ann Blow and Thomas Burrill. This took place, in Jan 1860, in the Register Office at Gainsborough, Lincs. Would a Register Office wedding then be unusual? And I wonder if an expert eye can decipher the note in the bottom right hand corner, next to a witness’s name, John Andrew. (Mary Ann had a fellow-villager called John Andrew.) I am not sure if the note refers to this witness, or what it says...

I should perhaps add that Mary Ann Blow had been a teenage servant of Thomas Burrill, hired to look after his sick wife. She had an illegitimate child (George) in 1853 & successfully sued Thomas for financial support. But she returned to his home (in my village) where his sick wife died, bizarrely (as reported in the press) in 1854.

Mary Ann and Thomas appear to have gone on living together. On 15 April 1859 she had a second illegitimate child, who she registered (with Dr Eminson!) as Mary Ann Borrell (one of many variants of Thomas’ name). The child was christened on June 19, 1859. And in Jan 1860, she and Thomas finally married. I would be most grateful for your thoughts on their choice of Gainsborough Register Office – and on whether this office was likely to be in the workhouse, which definitely existed in Gainsborough  at that date. Many thanks!





Offline jim1

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AntonyMMM is the best person to answer this but
the short answer is yes Registrars did travel.
As for the annotation it's possibly father of son registered twice
if that makes sense but could be wrong of course.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline ARBELLA

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AntonyMMM is the best person to answer this but
the short answer is yes Registrars did travel.
As for the annotation it's possibly father of son registered twice
if that makes sense but could be wrong of course.

Thank you! That has stopped me making a bad mistake. I did wonder how all the villagers managed to tramp 8 miles to Dr Eminson.

Yes, I think the first two words of the note are 'Father of...' That's a help, too. Thank you very much for your time!

Online AntonyMMM

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If the local Dr was also the registrar I suppose he could certainly register deaths whilst visiting/attending the deceased, so it is possible, but not certain that that is what happened.

A register office wedding would have taken place in the office of the superintendent registrar wherever that was at the time( a newspaper search may reveal that). The proportion of register office marriages grew slowly from about 1% in 1838 and got to 15% by 1900 so it would have been unusual, but not exceptionally so. A register office wedding at that time might indicate a couple of different religious denominations perhaps ?

The note in the bottom right of the marriage certificate should be the signature of the superintendent registrar who would have conducted the ceremony. It is difficult to make out but it might just say something like..."F Wood Supt Regr Pro tem" ...i.e. temporary.

Being a GRO certificate it isn't an image of the original register, so Lincolnshire may be able to provide a more accurate certificate for you if necessary.



Offline Glen in Tinsel Kni

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Lord St was the home of the Overseers and later the different incarnations of the council right up to the point when the WLDC moved to Marshall's Yard.

The following is a copy and paste of details from about 15 years ago (hence no 1911 census details) I was doing some research into Fanny Craven;

1871 the family were living on Trinity Street, the household includes Sarah Ledger recorded as mother in law to Joseph and a correseponding record shows the marriage of Joseph Craved to Ann Ledger in Boston in 1856.

1881 and living on Lord Street.
Joseph CRAVEN Head M Male 48 Gedney, Lincoln, England Vestry Clerk & C Solicitors Clerk
Ann CRAVEN Wife M Female 49 Wigtoft, Lincoln, England Vestry Clerk & C Solicitors Clerk Wife
Annie Elizth. CRAVEN Dau Unm Female 22 Gainsbro, Lincoln, England Music Teacher
Fanny Maria CRAVEN Dau Unm Female 14 Gainsbro, Lincoln, England Scholar

1891 Census living at 12 Lord Street
Joseph is a vestry clerk/solicitors clerk
Ann is an insurance agent/house agent
Fanny is an assistant vestry clerk

1901
19 Morton Terrace
Joseph, solicitors clerk/insurance agent, superintendant registrar of births, marriages and deaths

The 1930 Kelly's Directory of Gainsborough shows Miss Fanny Craven resident at 19 Morton Terrace.
Also in 1930 Lancelot Crook Iveson lived at "The Hollies", Morton Terrace.


Additional comments on the thread mentioned the Iveson surname linked to #7 and #12 Lord St and family members being recorded as solicitors and also a registrar of births, marriages and deaths.

Lincolnshire Registration services supply scans of the original registers for the entire county but do ask for the venue name/location when it's a marriage event. As that is known in this case they should be able to locate the register and supply a copy, I've used them regularly over the years and in most cases I've received the cert within a couple of days. 

Offline RJ_Paton

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There is an interesting posting on The National Archives site regarding the early duties and expectations placed on registrars
https://media.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php/early-civil-registration/

Offline ARBELLA

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If the local Dr was also the registrar I suppose he could certainly register deaths whilst visiting/attending the deceased, so it is possible, but not certain that that is what happened.

A register office wedding would have taken place in the office of the superintendent registrar wherever that was at the time( a newspaper search may reveal that). The proportion of register office marriages grew slowly from about 1% in 1838 and got to 15% by 1900 so it would have been unusual, but not exceptionally so. A register office wedding at that time might indicate a couple of different religious denominations perhaps ?

The note in the bottom right of the marriage certificate should be the signature of the superintendent registrar who would have conducted the ceremony. It is difficult to make out but it might just say something like..."F Wood Supt Regr Pro tem" ...i.e. temporary.

Being a GRO certificate it isn't an image of the original register, so Lincolnshire may be able to provide a more accurate certificate for you if necessary.

Thank you very much! The statistics about the growth of register office weddings are fascinating.

I have requested a copy of this certificate from Lincolnshire County Council, and look forward to seeing what their image will yield! Thank you again for your time and expertise.

Offline ARBELLA

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Lord St was the home of the Overseers and later the different incarnations of the council right up to the point when the WLDC moved to Marshall's Yard.

The following is a copy and paste of details from about 15 years ago (hence no 1911 census details) I was doing some research into Fanny Craven;

1871 the family were living on Trinity Street, the household includes Sarah Ledger recorded as mother in law to Joseph and a correseponding record shows the marriage of Joseph Craved to Ann Ledger in Boston in 1856.

1881 and living on Lord Street.
Joseph CRAVEN Head M Male 48 Gedney, Lincoln, England Vestry Clerk & C Solicitors Clerk
Ann CRAVEN Wife M Female 49 Wigtoft, Lincoln, England Vestry Clerk & C Solicitors Clerk Wife
Annie Elizth. CRAVEN Dau Unm Female 22 Gainsbro, Lincoln, England Music Teacher
Fanny Maria CRAVEN Dau Unm Female 14 Gainsbro, Lincoln, England Scholar

1891 Census living at 12 Lord Street
Joseph is a vestry clerk/solicitors clerk
Ann is an insurance agent/house agent
Fanny is an assistant vestry clerk

1901
19 Morton Terrace
Joseph, solicitors clerk/insurance agent, superintendant registrar of births, marriages and deaths

The 1930 Kelly's Directory of Gainsborough shows Miss Fanny Craven resident at 19 Morton Terrace.
Also in 1930 Lancelot Crook Iveson lived at "The Hollies", Morton Terrace.


Additional comments on the thread mentioned the Iveson surname linked to #7 and #12 Lord St and family members being recorded as solicitors and also a registrar of births, marriages and deaths.

Lincolnshire Registration services supply scans of the original registers for the entire county but do ask for the venue name/location when it's a marriage event. As that is known in this case they should be able to locate the register and supply a copy, I've used them regularly over the years and in most cases I've received the cert within a couple of days.

Thank you! That is most helpful. I have ordered a copy of Thomas and Mary Ann's marriage certificate from Lincolnshire County Council and have quoted the venue details on the GRO copy: 'The Register Office..in the District of Gainsborough'.

I wonder if I could trouble you for a little more information about Lord Street, if you happen to be familiar with it? I believe that West Lindsey Council's last office there was in a building called 'The Guildhall' which was modern - I have found photographs online. I think this Guildhall may now have been demolished? (I was married in Gainsborough Register Office in 1975. I remember the building as modern. I wonder if that was the Lord Street 'Guildhall'?')

Are there any images online, please, of older buildings used by the Council in Lord Street? Or are your fascinating Census details the closest we can come to locating the place where Thomas and Mary Ann were married? I think I read that there were 7 pubs in Lord Street at one point, if they wanted to stop off before going home - on a January Sunday! Gainsborough was 9 miles from their home, so I hope they got a lift in a cart!

I had read that register offices were often in a workhouse complex, so it does sound as if they avoided such a grim setting! I am writing the story of this couple, and would obviously like to add interesting detail, like the exact place of their marriage - but only if it is accurate. I'm very grateful for your help.                   

Offline ARBELLA

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There is an interesting posting on The National Archives site regarding the early duties and expectations placed on registrars
https://media.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php/early-civil-registration/

Thank you! A very lively and illuminating article. I know now that I must refer to the REGISTER office in print. As the author complains, most of us say 'Registry'... Thank you for improving my accuracy!