Author Topic: James Henry and family based in New York  (Read 1534 times)

Offline KrisWilson

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Re: James Henry and family based in New York
« Reply #9 on: Friday 07 June 24 23:57 BST (UK) »
This may be James' death - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W6G-BXN  Hostler seems to fit with the horse-related occupations, and the address is also on 44th St.  The cemetery will take genealogical requests - https://www.theevergreenscemetery.org/genealogical-requests

shellyesq: I have scoured through those links and not had much luck unfortunately, I had another look through births in the NYC Historical Vital Records again and there is also another Irish James Henry on a birth that is maked as a coachman.

Checking the ages between Annie Henrys birth and the death cert above he is 30 at the birth in 1890 and 41 at the death cert in 1896 which would be a 6 year gap which would make him 36 instead of 41. Not sure if that's too big a gap to be the same person or it was just input incorrectly, I've reached out to the cemetery to see if there is any more info.

The other James Henry I found was on this birth cert:

Annie Ethel Henry - Dec 21 1888
Father: James J. Henry Aged: 30 (Coachman)
https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/394990

This would be an 8 year gap making this James Henry 38, closer still but not 41.

Offline Neale1961

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Re: James Henry and family based in New York
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 08 June 24 08:19 BST (UK) »
From the Marriage of James HENRY to Jane WELSH in 1887 Allendale, Ottawa, Michigan, USA
James Henry b 1860 Co. Tyrone, and Jane Welsh b 1867 Ballycastle
witnesses - Joseph Lormer and Mary Hartley


I have been looking at the witnesses to the marriage

Some things for note, all in Allendale - (hoping this makes sense - takes some time to work through!)

Joseph Bailey LORIMER /LORMER born abt 1828 Ireland
Died 17 Jun 1898 Allendale, Ottawa, Michigan, USA
His wife was Rachel HARTLEY. They married 1861 Michigan


Living in Allendale is
John HENRY born abt 1832 Ireland, died 1907 Allendale, Ottawa, Michigan, USA
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/104767762/john-henry

Death record names his father as Robert HENRY and Elizabeth SLOAN
John HENRY born Ireland 1832.   Resident Allendale, Ottawa, Michigan July 1863 - a farmer from Ireland, and wife Elizabeth (nee HARTLEY)

In 1870 census John HENRY family - they live next door to the Hartley family


There is a death in Allendale, Ottawa, Michigan 16 Oct 1873
For Eliza Jane HENRY (15, born Ireland) daughter of Robert and Nancy HENRY
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/104767729/eliza-jane-henry


Annie ROBERTSON (36 widow, nee HENRY) married 1908 Alex LORIMER son of Joseph LORIMER and Rachel HARTLEY
She had married John ROBERTSON in 1902 Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Her parents were Robert HENRY and Nancy HARTLEY
Annie died in 1927 Allendale
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/104916294/annie-lorimer

On her death, her birth year is somewhat out.
This birth in 1865 Cookstown Tyrone is a match for her details.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F55H-FS6
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03556/2309309.pdf

        I think these people must be connected in some way to your James HENRY.

You might want to further investigate the Henry family of Cookstown Co Tyrone



I also noticed ( may or may not be of interest) -
1870 census Grand Haven Ottawa Michigan (not far from Allendale)
James Henry age 19 labourer from Ireland
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline KrisWilson

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Re: James Henry and family based in New York
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 08 June 24 17:52 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much for this Neale1961 incredible research, I've spent some time looking for those particular Henrys in Ireland and found this which might shed some more light:

1853 Marriage Ireland - Robert Henry
10 February 1853 - Magherafelt, Co Londonderry
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1853/09454/5425795.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/magherafelt2/

Robert Henry 21 (Farmer) Father: Robert Henry
Ann Hartley 20, Father: James? Hartley (Farmer)

Roberts Residence at time of marriage:
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/dungannon-upper/kildress/oritor/muntober/
Townland: Muntober (Same as Annies birth)
Parish: Kildress
County: Tyrone

Anns Residence at time of marriage:
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/dungannon-upper/lissan-dungannon-upper-portion/lissan/dunmore/
Townland: Dunmore
Parish: Lissan
County: Tyrone

Still working away at looking for other Henrys based off of this but I thought I would share.

Thanks,
Kris

Offline Neale1961

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Re: James Henry and family based in New York
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 08 June 24 19:12 BST (UK) »
There was also a son named John born 1867 for Robert Henry and Ann Hartley
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03468/2273620.pdf

Unfortunately, your James Henry would have been born before civil registration. He might have been the first son born to the marriage, and named after Ann’s father - James Hartley.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)


Offline KrisWilson

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Re: James Henry and family based in New York
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 08 June 24 23:29 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all of your help so far Neale1961, unfortunately I think that is the case for James Henrys birth certificate, typical it was just shy of civil registration. I’ll see what I hear back from the cemetery on the James Henry death certificate listed below. I’ve compiled everything in a timeline to try and make more sense of it all.

1853 Marriage Ireland - Robert Henry & Ann Hartley
10 February 1853 - Magherafelt, Co Londonderry
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1853/09454/5425795.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/magherafelt2/

Robert Henry 21 (Farmer) Father: Robert Henry
Ann Hartley 20, Father: James? Hartley (Farmer)

Roberts Residence at time of marriage:
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/dungannon-upper/kildress/oritor/muntober/
Townland: Muntober (Same as Annies birth)
Parish: Kildress
County: Tyrone

Anns Residence at time of marriage:
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/dungannon-upper/lissan-dungannon-upper-portion/lissan/dunmore/
Townland: Dunmore
Parish: Lissan
County: Tyrone

1855 ??? Birth Ireland - James Henry
Possibly 1855 from Death Cert. Born pre 1864 (before civil registration in Ireland)
Possibly named after mothers father James

1863 Residence Allendale - John Henry
Born: abt 1832, Ireland, Occupation: Farmer
Wife: Elizabeth (nee Hartley) Henry
Died: 1907, Allendale, Ottawa, Michigan

Father: Robert Henry
Mother: Elizabeth (nee Sloan) Henry

1865 Birth Ireland - Annie Henry
23 Sep 1865 - Cookstown, Co Tyrone
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03556/2309309.pdf

Father: Robert Henry (Occupation: Labourer)
Mother: Annie/Nancy Henry (nee Hartley)
Residence: Townland: Muntober, Kildress, Co Tyrone

1867 Birth Ireland - John Henry
17 Nov 1867 - Muntober, Kildress, Co Tyrone
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03468/2273620.pdf

Father: Robert Henry (Occupation: Farmer)
Mother: Annie Henry (nee Hartley)
Residence: Townland: Muntober, Kildress, Co Tyrone

1870 Census Allendale - John Henry
John Henry - Living next door to Hartley family

1870 Census Grand Haven, Ottawa, Michigan - James Henry
James Henry, Aged 19 (Labourer from Ireland) (Would be 15 from death cert.)

1873 Death Allendale - Eliza Jane Henry
16 Oct 1873 - Allendale, Ottawa, Michigan
Age: 15, Born Ireland

Father: Robert Henry
Mother: Annie Henry (nee Hartley)

1887 Marriage Allendale - James Henry & Mary Welsh
Allendale, Ottawa, Michigan, USA
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N3NZ-45N

James Henry, B: 1860, Co. Tyrone
Mary Welsh, B: 1867, Ballycastle

Witness #1:
Joseph Lorimer B: abt 1828, Ireland
Died 17 Jun 1896, Allendale, Ottawa, Michigan
Wife: Rachel Hartley, Married 1861, Michigan

Witness #2:
Mary Hartley

1888 Birth New York - Fanny Henry
Born: 29 Nov 1888, New York City, USA

1890 Birth New York - Annie Henry
Born: 26 Sep 1890, Manhattan, New York City, USA
https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/506444

Father: James Henry, Age: 30 (Would be 35 from Death Cert.)
Occupation: Groom (Coachman)
Mother: Mary Welsh, Age: 21
Birthplace of parents: Ireland

1896 Birth New York - Mary Henry
Born: 4 Jan 1896, New York City, USA

1896 Death New York - James Henry
Died: 11 Aug 1896, Manhattan, New York
Age: 41 (Would make birth in Ireland 1855)
Occupation: Holster
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W6G-BXN

1908 Marriage Allendale - Annie (nee Henry) Robertson & Alex Lorimer
Allendale, Ottawa, Michigan, USA
Annie (nee Henry) Robertson, Age: 36 (Widow)

Father: Robert Henry
Mother: Annie/Nancy Henry (nee Hartley)

Alex Lorimer

Father: Joseph Lorimer
Mother: Rachel Hartley

1927 Death Allendale - Annie (nee Henry) Robertson / Lorimer
Died: 1927 Allendale, Ottawa, Michigan, USA
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/104916294/annie-lorimer

-------------

I also searched for Hartley’s in Cookstown, found the correct names but the years don’t match up:

1885 Birth Ireland - Mary Hartley
Born: 2 Dec 1885, Chapel St, Cookstown, Co Tyrone
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02618/1966290.pdf

Father: Matthew Hartley (Dealer)
Mother: Elizabeth (Henry?) Hartley

Would be 2 as witness at James & Marys Marriage in 1887 if the same Mary

1874 Birth Ireland - Rachel Hartley
Born: 27 Jun 1874, Loy, Cookstown, Co Tyrone
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1874/03141/2151755.pdf

Father: Matthew Hartley (General Dealer)
Mother: Elizabeth (Henry?) Hartley

Would be 13 as witness at James & Marys Marriage in 1887
The witness named Rachel was married in 1861 which predates this.

Might need to do a bit more digging with them.

Offline Neale1961

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Re: James Henry and family based in New York
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 09 June 24 00:03 BST (UK) »
John HENRY and wife Elizabeth HARTLEY were in Allendale Michigan from at least 1860.

Elizabeth Jane HENRY (nee Hartley) died Dec 1888 in Allendale Michigan, age 56 (born Ireland abt 1832)   Parents named on death as James and Jane Hartley

John and Elizabeth were married in Ireland in 1856
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1856/09514/5448764.pdf


Rachel HARTLEY who married Joseph LORIMER was another sister. Her death certificate in 1909 Allendale, names her parents as James HARTLEY and Jane WATSON.


So we have 3 Hartley sisters – Elizabeth Jane (1832), Ann/ Nancy (1833), and Rachel (1838) – all daughters of James HARTLEY and Jane WATSON from Co. Tyrone.

Their brother Andrew HARTLEY  (b Dec 1834) is in Allendale Michigan and died in 1902.
Another brother John HARTLEY (b abt 1840 Ireland) died in Allendale Michigan in 1885.
Both these brothers on death cert. name father as James Hartley and mother as Jane Watson.


It looks as if the Hartley family along with John Henry came from Tyrone to Michigan sometime between 1856 and 1860 when they first appear in the USA records. 1858 was immigration for Andrew Hartley.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: James Henry and family based in New York
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 09 June 24 00:18 BST (UK) »

It seems that John HENRY (in Allendale Michigan) was the brother to Robert HENRY (in Muntober, Tyrone)
Both were the sons of Robert HENRY and Elizabeth SLOAN
The Henry brothers married Hartley sisters.

Speculation – if one or both Henry parents died in Ireland at a relatively young age, it would make sense for their children to come to Michigan to be with ‘family’.

We have in Allendale, children of Robert HENRY and Ann HARTLEY - Eliza HENRY (born 1858 Tyrone, died age 15),  and Annie HENRY – ROBERTSON – LORIMER (born 1865 Tyrone).  They were the nieces of John HENRY and his wife Elizabeth Jane Hartley.
I suspect your James HENRY is a sibling - from the same family.



There are a few deaths for different Robert HENRYs in Cookstown Tyrone, but details are not showing online.

There is a death in Cookstown Tyrone in 1870 for a Robert HENRY (born 1815)


There is also a death in Cookstown Tyrone in 1867 for a Robert HENRY (born 1789). This may be the father, Robert.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: James Henry and family based in New York
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 09 June 24 00:31 BST (UK) »
Kris, Do you know that you can get James Henry’s death certificate from NYC Records?

Because you know the certificate number (cn 28239) and all other details from the FamilySearch as posted in reply #5, you save yourself the research fee. Recent experience with the service- it didn’t take too long from request to receiving.

Information from NYC Historical Vital Records:-

Fill out the Vital Records Order Form, and we will conduct a search. If the record is located, we will digitize on demand. If not, we will provide a certified not found letter.
Link to Order Form
https://www.nyc.gov/site/records/historical-records/order-new.page
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline KrisWilson

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Re: James Henry and family based in New York
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 09 June 24 02:40 BST (UK) »
Thanks Neale1961, you have been so helpful with this I really appreciate all of the help.

I must have completely missed the certificate number in that FamilySearch link, I've ordered the death certificate now using the number so hopefully that will shed some light, I take it the family search not having parents details is just because nobody has the scan?

Out of interest, do you know how long it took to get your certificate? I put in an order for Fanny Henrys birth certificate with all of the info I know and paid the research fee but that was 18 days ago and I have had no response.