Author Topic: Level of False Positives on Ancestry and MyHertiage  (Read 2457 times)

Offline 4b2

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Level of False Positives on Ancestry and MyHertiage
« on: Wednesday 17 July 24 12:31 BST (UK) »
Does anyone know what the level false positives for DNA matches on these services are?

I am aware that Ancestry has a system of stripping out shared DNA from matches they feel is not inherited via shared Ancestry. And it seems to me that strips out most false positives.

Offline SouthseaSteel

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Level of False Positives on Ancestry and MyHertiage
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 17 July 24 19:55 BST (UK) »

Thats a good question and I dont know the answer but I await like you, any insights!!

However I have recently come across an Ancestry Match of 60 cM which patently was not ancestral.  One party was from a totally Jamaican non European family and the other was from a totally Gloucester, England family.  I have another of 100 cM which I am quite sure is not ancestral but I have not "proven" it yet.

60 cM seemed high to me, although I regularly see Matches of up to 30 odd cM across the many accounts I manage which I am pretty certain are not ancestral.


Offline Ayashi

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,926
  • Lost in the DNA rabbit hole
    • View Profile
Re: Level of False Positives on Ancestry and MyHertiage
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 17 July 24 22:02 BST (UK) »
I suppose its a bit hard to prove when its possible to be related to these non-related groups via NPE. I've got a few groups in my family that bewilder me but I've always figured that I just haven't found the connection.

Offline 4b2

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: Level of False Positives on Ancestry and MyHertiage
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 17 July 24 22:41 BST (UK) »
I suppose its a bit hard to prove when its possible to be related to these non-related groups via NPE. I've got a few groups in my family that bewilder me but I've always figured that I just haven't found the connection.

My take is there are very few false positives on Ancestry, at least at >= 30cM. I use the search button to quickly look up dead ends in matches' trees, which allows you to patch most of them. Others might need a little digging, and some can't be done without ordering records. If you ignore the ones with no tree or are indeterminable, then I have clusters where I've found the common link. So my take is most if not all above 30cM are real relatives. Not sure about the lower ones.

When I contacted many on Living DNA I found many said they had a tree on Ancestry, where we didn't match at all in many cases. Living DNA matches are at least half false positives in my estimation. Ancestry do a very good job of stripping them out.

As for NPEs, in the medieval time about 1% of children were born out of wedlock, then in the 1500s it went up to about 2-3%, down to 1% in the 1600s, up to 5% in the 1700s and down to about 3-4% in the 1800s. Two studies have put the rate of infidelity at around 1.35%. So in the time period autosomal tests are relevant we are looking at about 5% chance of any birth being an NPE.

We can use DNA to prove our lines are correct, that leaves the other party. At four cousins that is five births with around a 25% chance of an NPE if we take the numbers above. NPEs seem to cluster, due to the morals (or lack thereof) of the family. But I think it's fare to expect around 25% of a ~4th cousin cluster to be coming from an NPE.

If it's illegitimacy, it's more obvious. Using overlapping locations, triangulation of matches and Ancestry's clues spotting a match by illegitimacy is not too difficult.

Infidelity can be a bit more tricky, as you don't have the gaping hole births out of wedlock tend to leave in a tree. But I have found two.

1) I found a match with a birth out of wedlock with the first name Harry Roberts. The test subject was on the same generational level and my great-grandfather and overlapped with one of my clusters where there were only two children who survived adulthood over two generations - one named Harry Roberts.

2) My best friend's father took the ancestry test. He shared the matches and the first thing I noticed was the first surname Ancestry suggested from his shared matches was an unusual one from which I descend. I being sorting his matches and soon come across 56cM match who I knew was also a descendant. As I continue I find more and more familiar matches all from this line of my ancestry. His father did not match my immediate families' tests, but in total there were over 200 matches in the cluster where the common ancestors are also mine. So I was able to pinpoint the shared ancestry from my tree and the rough point where it interjected with my friend's father. I found that at that point there was a Mr. Morgan who married a Miss Roberts. There were DNA matches for the ancestry of Roberts, but zero for Morgan. And Ancestry trees had many with the Morgan family in it, which I use as a measure of whether there will be tested descendants. I found that the first two children born to Mr. Morgan and the former Miss Roberts were actually the children of my 4X-great-grandfather who lived about 2 miles away. The following year he moved 20 miles away and it does no appear any ensuing children were his.

If one digs deeply enough into the matches, and catalogs them thoroughly based on the flow of genes, one can root out NPEs. But the upper limit of being able to do so would probably be births around 1800.



Offline Zaphod99

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Level of False Positives on Ancestry and MyHertiage
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 18 July 24 09:29 BST (UK) »
SouthseaSteel,
I'm not an expert but I have been studying genetic genealogy for several years and if anyone was able to demonstrate that matches of 60 or 100 centiMorgans were invalid, it would turn the industry on its head. I would even say the same about matches as high as 30.  I think you are trying to deny the truth.

Zaph

Offline SouthseaSteel

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Level of False Positives on Ancestry and MyHertiage
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 18 July 24 09:44 BST (UK) »

I would show you the photos of the people involved but it would be inappropriate!!!

And dont worry I'm never in denial when it comes to DNA research!!

Ill grant you the 100 cM one is unresolved and Im prepared to defer on that but not the 60 cM one unless the other party is spoofing pictures, details and online documents etc

Offline SouthseaSteel

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Level of False Positives on Ancestry and MyHertiage
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 18 July 24 10:10 BST (UK) »

I add that I acknowledge that 60 cM is extremely anomalous and the accepted range of false positives is much lower at 30 max and more like 15 and below.  I also acknowledge that 60 cM could be a 6th cousin but we arent that interested in it to prove it one way or the other!!

   

Offline LizzieL

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,998
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Level of False Positives on Ancestry and MyHertiage
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 18 July 24 11:04 BST (UK) »

Ill grant you the 100 cM one is unresolved and Im prepared to defer on that but not the 60 cM one unless the other party is spoofing pictures, details and online documents etc

I have a 80cm match whose on line tree goes back to all his sixteen 2xgreat grandparents, and some branches further back than that. From his tree I could find no connection with me at all. All his ancestors were from Cambridgeshire / East Anglia. From our shared matches, the only line of mine where we could converge was from West Berkshire. I contacted him to ask whether he had any ancestors from this area, but he confirmed he had none. But when I checked his tree in more detail, I discovered his mother was born 3 years after his supposed grandfather's death (He left the "grandfather's" death blank on his tree). The "grandfather" was KIA in 1917. The record on CWGC gives the name of the soldier's widow, residence and names of his parents so no chance it was a different chap. Thinking I had uncovered something new, I contacted him about his grandfather. he said he knew all about it. 
So there's an example where someone  knowingly posts an erroneous tree. There also might be a case where someone is adopted, but not know about it, so they have unwittingly built an incorrect tree.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline alpinecottage

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,174
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Level of False Positives on Ancestry and MyHertiage
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 18 July 24 11:07 BST (UK) »
In the days before divorce was available to most people, before IVF or assisted conception, before babies born in hospital had identity tags, before adoption was formalised and probably other circumstances, people  had to make private arrangements.
When  we say "non-paternal event" we tend to think of infidelity, rape etc but people could take in parentless children, or the children of sick relatives, or children homed out by the parish...in other words for good or altruistic reasons.
Still a mystery at the moment for Southsea Steel but could be a lovely uplifting story behind it.
Perrins - Manchester and Staffs
Honan - Manchester and Ireland
Hogg - Manchester 19 cent
Anderson - Newcastle mid 19 cent
Boullen - London then Carlisle then Manchester
Comer - Manchester and Galway