Charles James Roberts Born June 1885 Ballarat, Australia

[spitfire48]

Charles James Roberts born June 1885 is my grandfather.  His birth certificate says his father is:
James Roberts, Engineer aged 49 born Cornwall, England., and his mother is
Margaret Todd Roberts nee Alexander aged 36, born at sea on the ship Blonde.
They were married 25 March 1869 in Sale, Victoria.  However their marriage record says his name was Griffith Roberts and they were married in 1870.
I am trying to find any information about James / Griffith Roberts.
Thank you.

[jorose]

Interestingly, when I look for children, there are several born in the 1870s and then a big gap until Charles.
1870, 1873, 1875, 1877, 1885, 1888

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/268283317?searchTerm=%22Griffith%20Roberts%22
 - This may be relevant, it sounds like Margaret was committed to an asylum in 1879.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/257961790?searchTerm=%22Griffith%20Roberts%22
 - shortly after she was staying with Mrs Alexander (presumably her mother)

https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/989AECC7-F4C7-11E9-AE98-DDCC9657C12B?image=249
 - the four children with Griffith Roberts were noted as neglected, father having left the colony and mother a lunatic who was living with her mother.
Foster mother was assigned as Mrs Ann Alexander

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/257143030?searchTerm=%22Margaret%20Roberts%22
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3737256?searchTerm=%221%20Salisbury%20Grove%2C%20Glenferrie%22
 - at death Margaret was still a Roberts, and only the four children in the 1870s are listed (this could indicate that one of the two older boys placed this notice, and they either weren't aware of the other births or deliberately excluded them).


So something is very unusual here. On the birth certificate in 1885 for Charles, who gives the information?

[Cas (stallc)]

Griffith -  trees have his age as 29  at marriage in 1870, born Wales.circa 1840. Looks like occupation was wheelwright.

If Griffith absconded in 1880 as given in info above, are Griffith & James 2 different men?

It maybe possible that James ? bc 1820 in Cornwall, an engineer, was the father. Registration name given as Roberts as that was Margaret's married name. It is likely the only marriage was to Griffith, the 1869 marriage on birth cert is likely fabrication.

Just a few thoughts.

Welcome to Rootschat 

Cas

[Cas (stallc)]

You may have this

Anne Alexander
Arrival Age   33
Birth Date   abt 1815
Arrival Date   15 Oct 1848
Arrival Place   New South Wales, Australia
Origin Location   Linlithgow Linlithgowshire
Alternate Origin Location   Stirling, Stirlingshire
Vessel   Blonde
Can Read and Write   Read
Religion   Presbyterian

All from same area of Scotland, all same religion
Travelling with Robert 32, lab, David 2 and Margaret, states born on voyage

Cas

[spitfire48]

Well!!  First of all - thank you!  This is starting to make sense. From what you have written I am making the following conclusions:

Griffith may not be Charles' father.  More likely James (Roberts) possibly another surname. 
Margaret was committed to an asylum and the four children were left neglected by their father who absconded.  They were put into the care of their grandmother - Ann Alexander
Two more children were born following these events - I have Charles 1885 and John? 1888

The informant on Charles birth certificate was his mother - Margaret Todd Alexander.  His birth certificate is No. 14997

Charles always claimed he was illegitimate.  His birth certificate led me to dispute this.  However it appears that could be correct.  I am now quoting from a letter written by my late father:

"Charles James was born 1885 in Ballarat.... Little has been handed down in respect to his early life or parentage, but this I do know.  His father migrated to Australia approx three years before his married spouse, to the colony.  This fact caused major problems as could be well appreciated ....My dad was born to a Miss Hammill and so my real name according to genealogy is Hammill-Roberts.  Her christian names I do not know....A family took care of Charles after his birth mother died.  Whilst in their care he was known as Chick Harvey, both at home and during his early school years....... Dad's christian names were Charles James Hammill."        (this is shown on his birth certificate).

I am assuming Margaret is definitely his mother.  Is it possible James Hammill was his father?   When was Margaret released from the asylum?  Margaret had two more children after Griffith absconded.  Charles was raised by a family surname Harvey? 

Thank you for your efforts.  Some things are starting to make sense.

[spitfire48]

Some more questions:

Margaret's death notice states "wife of the late Griffith Roberts".  Wondering when and where he died.

The Albury Banner and Wodonga Express reported on Sat 20 Mar 1880 "..... there is a fear that she may have made away with herself, from the fact that no trace of her can be found."  Presumably she hadn't as she gave birth to two more children 1885 and 1880.  Is there any more information regarding her health circumstances?  Records from the Kew asylum?

[jorose]

It is quite common that middle names are a hit to a birth father, so possible indeed that "James Hammill" was the birth father of Charles.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/268288990?searchTerm=%22James%20Hammill%22
 - This death for an Ellen Kitto, native of Cornwall, sister of James Hammill, in Sale, puts him in the right area and time frame to have been in contact with Margaret.

He was, it appears, a married man with many children


Asylum records:
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/CAC347D9-F4EE-11E9-AE98-4FABD6AD9A93?image=140
 - she is towards the bottom here, entered April 24 1879, released on leave August 5 1879

These details then let us find the details on her admission:
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/A6FB1F67-F4EE-11E9-AE98-335881290C9D?image=324
It makes for sad reading; the diagnosis was melancholia (depression), after a stillbirth and being deserted by her husband.

Her mother as well as a brother, John Alexander, are listed.
Her mother appears to have died in 1886, so Margaret had lost one of her primary supports at that point.

[wivenhoe]

"The informant on Charles birth certificate was his mother - Margaret Todd Alexander.  His birth certificate is No. 14997"

If this document is the earliest evidence you have about Charles, then you need to list here every word on the document.

Can you please list all the information on the document that you have.

[Cas (stallc)]

There is a possible baptism in 1819 St Erth Cornwall

https://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=3253158

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/CON/StErth

Cas