Author Topic: Marriage of James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly or Ramsay in 1851?  (Read 478 times)

Offline bikermickau

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Marriage of James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly or Ramsay in 1851?
« on: Tuesday 03 September 24 02:39 BST (UK) »
I've not been able to locate a marriage for James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly. (Ramsay?)
I also haven't found births/baptisms for their first 4 or 5 children.
Children's births/baptisms may be between 1852 to 1858 according to their ages on their parents Death Certs.
Marriage and births/baptisms were likely in Victoria.
No immigrations records found.
 
The first birth record I have is their known 3rd daughter Jane Ramsey Thompson 1859 at Warrnambool, Victoria, Australia (5th child?).
She married William Walter Voss 1882 QLD.

I have a copy of both James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly or Ramsay Death Certificates.

James Thompson died 1891 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. Age 71. Born Carnwath, Scotland.
21 Years in Victoria, 27 Years QLD, 2 years NSW.
Parents are Robert Thompson (Architect) and Agnes Tervit.
Place of marriage is Victoria at age 32 to Maria Caroline Ramsay.
I have a birth for him 1819 which indicates marriage year is about 1851.
Living children ages are 39, 37, 35, 33, 31, 29, 27, 25, 23.
1 female deceased. I haven't located her.
Informant is son inlaw, husband of oldest known daughter.

Maria Caroline Thompson died 1904 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Age 72. Born "Near Glasgow, Scotland.
16 years Victoria , 25 Years QLD,  14 Years NSW.
Father is Kelly (surname only). mother is not named.
Place of marriage is Victoria at age 18 to James Thompson.
Living children ages are 52, 50, 46, 44, 42, 38.
3 sons deceased. no deceased females mentioned.
Informant is her youngest son.

The Queenslander (Brisbane, Qld. : 1866 - 1939), Obituary: James Thompson, Sat 25 Apr 1891 Page 810  Current News.
"The death of Mr. James Thompson, of
Mount Emu Plains station, Hughenden, was
recently recorded in our columns, having taken
place at the Wentworth Hotel, Sydney, on the
9th instant. A correspondent supplies the
following particulars of the life of the deceased
gentlemen, who was a very old colonist:—
" Mr. Thompson was born at Carnwath, Scot-
land, in 1819, and arrived in Victoria in 1841,
where he at once entered into pastoral pur-
suits as overseer on Woodyallack station, the
property of Mr. De Verney, where he remained
for four years. He then entered into partner-
ship with Mr. Charles Brown, and formed and
named the well-known station of Glenamble, in
the western district of Victoria. He carried on
this station for many years, but disposed of his
interest, and decided upon removing to the
North of Queensland, where a great deal of new
pastoral settlement was taking place at the time.
With this object in view he joined Messrs.
Muirson and Jamieson under the name of
Muirson and Co., and in 1862 purchased sheep
from Mr. John M'Arthur, of Glenelg, Darling
Downs, with which he travelled overland and
formed the well-known station of Mount Emu
Plains, on the extreme head of the Gulf of
Carpentaria. The members of this firm were
the first settlers to occupy any portion of the
Gulf country, and one of Mr. Thompson's sons
was the first white child born in the Gulf
district. In 1871 Mr. Thompson purchased
the interests of his partners in Mount Emu,
and subsequently acquired the now equally
well-known stations of Fairlight and Tarbrax,
also on the waters of the Flinders, of which,
together with Mount Emu, he retained posses-
sion up to the time of his death. Mr. Thomp-
son was highly esteemed and respected through-
out Northern Queensland."."
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article20292115.

The Sydney Mail and New South Wales Advertiser (NSW : 1871 - 1912), Death Notice: Maria Caroline Thompson, Wed 27 Jul 1904  Page 253  Family Notices.
"THOMPSON. — July 22, at Sydney, Maria Caroline
Thompson, of North Queensland."
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article164910164.

Mick
Jeffs - Northamptonshire to Leicestershire to Queensland, Australia
Lewis - Wales to Gloucestershire to NSW & Queensland, Australia
Iddols & Baylis - Gloucestershire
Mary Jones - born 1863 Staffordshire, died 1948 Queensland, Australia
daughter of James Jones and Eliza Aston
Dorans - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Ralph - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Jillett - Robert, Transported Convict from Surrey
Christison - Edinburgh,Scotland
Cameron - Edinburgh, Scotland

Offline CassT

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Re: Marriage of James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly or Ramsay in 1851?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 September 24 04:06 BST (UK) »
Hi
there are number of trees on Ancestry, they indicate the marriage occurred 3.9.1850 Warrnambool Vic. One tree states that the date of marriage is recorded on a daughter's birth record and that Maria was living at Allansford.

Maybe the Warrnambool Family History group may be able to assist.

Sorry cannot help any further, good luck
Cass


Offline bikermickau

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Re: Marriage of James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly or Ramsay in 1851?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 03 September 24 04:40 BST (UK) »
Thanks Cass,

I've just contacted RHSV (Royal Historical Society of Victoria) with the same questions.

Mick

Hi
there are number of trees on Ancestry, they indicate the marriage occurred 3.9.1850 Warrnambool Vic. One tree states that the date of marriage is recorded on a daughter's birth record and that Maria was living at Allansford.

Maybe the Warrnambool Family History group may be able to assist.

Sorry cannot help any further, good luck
Cass
Jeffs - Northamptonshire to Leicestershire to Queensland, Australia
Lewis - Wales to Gloucestershire to NSW & Queensland, Australia
Iddols & Baylis - Gloucestershire
Mary Jones - born 1863 Staffordshire, died 1948 Queensland, Australia
daughter of James Jones and Eliza Aston
Dorans - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Ralph - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Jillett - Robert, Transported Convict from Surrey
Christison - Edinburgh,Scotland
Cameron - Edinburgh, Scotland

Offline sparrett

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Re: Marriage of James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly or Ramsay in 1851?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 05 September 24 05:18 BST (UK) »
Not really moving your search forward, but it may clarify a point or two in the newspaper article (obituary) about James THOMPSON.


overseer on Woodyallack station, the
property of Mr. De Verney, where he remained
for four years.
 

Some closer to correct/common spellings for the place -
Wardy Yallock
Wardy-Yallock (hyphen)
Woady Yallock


The district was settled by the LINTON Family in 1839 and was home to many aboriginal people.
It became known as Linton and is 45 miles from Geelong.

https://www.lintonhistory.org.au/brief-history

The more correct spelling for the man's name in DUVERNAY.
Commonly it appears DUVERNEY . Hi first name was Frederick and there are newspaper sightings of him as early as 1841.

Frederick Duvernay selling 5000 sheep and his station at Wardy Yallock . 1847

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/94445882

It seems he established an inn there which would have been popular as gold was found in the early 1850's

I hope this assists your research.

Sue
 

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline sparrett

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Re: Marriage of James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly or Ramsay in 1851?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 05 September 24 05:41 BST (UK) »
Also helpful to know the correct name of the other Victorian station mentioned is
GLENAMPLE.

The Glenample homestead information.  Brief mentions of the origins of the run and its owners.
It’s at Princetown Victoria.
 
https://victoriancollections.net.au/organisations/glenample-homestead

You could buy this book ;D
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/255607135742?srsltid=AfmBOorsueJHz5i5LJ8EnsW18W9aqzut3cQ3GjxS8V_e8gZ8Lb77VGPo

Sue


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bikermickau

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Re: Marriage of James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly or Ramsay in 1851?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 07 September 24 00:44 BST (UK) »
Thanks sparrett, I had been searching online for information about the 2 stations, your information is very helpful.

I just checked online at Melbourne State Library and they have a copy of "The story of Glenample" in onsite storage.
I have submitted a request to have a Librarian check the book and photocopy any relevant pages.

I recall when I worked there that was part of my duties.

Mick

Also helpful to know the correct name of the other Victorian station mentioned is
GLENAMPLE.

The Glenample homestead information.  Brief mentions of the origins of the run and its owners.
It’s at Princetown Victoria.
 
https://victoriancollections.net.au/organisations/glenample-homestead

You could buy this book ;D
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/255607135742?srsltid=AfmBOorsueJHz5i5LJ8EnsW18W9aqzut3cQ3GjxS8V_e8gZ8Lb77VGPo

Sue
Jeffs - Northamptonshire to Leicestershire to Queensland, Australia
Lewis - Wales to Gloucestershire to NSW & Queensland, Australia
Iddols & Baylis - Gloucestershire
Mary Jones - born 1863 Staffordshire, died 1948 Queensland, Australia
daughter of James Jones and Eliza Aston
Dorans - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Ralph - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Jillett - Robert, Transported Convict from Surrey
Christison - Edinburgh,Scotland
Cameron - Edinburgh, Scotland

Offline bikermickau

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Re: Marriage of James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly or Ramsay in 1851?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 07 September 24 02:34 BST (UK) »
I now have from a family tree on Ancestry the birth image for Jane Thompson aka Jane Ramsey Thompson
Born 16 Sept 1858, Allansford. Corrected from 16 Sept 1859
Father James Thompson, 40 years, Farmer, born Carnwath, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Mother Maria Thompson formerly Kelly, 29 years, born Wexford, Ireland
Married 1850 Warrnambool.
Issue and ages
Agnes Mary Jane - 8
Mary Clare - 6
James - 4
Robert Tervit - 3
James - infant
Informant James Thompson, Farmer, Allansford
Registered 29 April 1859, Warrnambool

I've still not found any sources for a full marriage date of 3.9.1850

Mick

Hi
there are number of trees on Ancestry, they indicate the marriage occurred 3.9.1850 Warrnambool Vic. One tree states that the date of marriage is recorded on a daughter's birth record and that Maria was living at Allansford.

Maybe the Warrnambool Family History group may be able to assist.

Sorry cannot help any further, good luck
Cass
Jeffs - Northamptonshire to Leicestershire to Queensland, Australia
Lewis - Wales to Gloucestershire to NSW & Queensland, Australia
Iddols & Baylis - Gloucestershire
Mary Jones - born 1863 Staffordshire, died 1948 Queensland, Australia
daughter of James Jones and Eliza Aston
Dorans - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Ralph - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Jillett - Robert, Transported Convict from Surrey
Christison - Edinburgh,Scotland
Cameron - Edinburgh, Scotland

Offline sparrett

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Re: Marriage of James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly or Ramsay in 1851?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 07 September 24 06:15 BST (UK) »
Interesting.
Almost nothing on the death certificate of Maria agrees with the information on the child's birth certificate.

I think the youngest son  was doing a bit of guesswork when he offered information upon Maria's death!

The obituary would suggest the marriage took place during James was at Glenample Station but this is a distance of more than 80 km. from Warrnambool

I wonder whether he was living closer to Warrnambool at the time of marriage.

Sue 
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline sparrett

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Re: Marriage of James Thompson & Maria Caroline Kelly or Ramsay in 1851?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 08 September 24 03:17 BST (UK) »
FYI
Charles BROWN's Glen Ample Run Number 45. Of 8000 acres in 1844

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4764746

Charles BROWN still the active owner 1859 at Glen Ample

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/154838776

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk