Author Topic: DNA ethnicity question  (Read 622 times)

Offline Penmaiden

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DNA ethnicity question
« on: Wednesday 13 November 24 18:31 GMT (UK) »
My DNA results say I'm a good percentage English, Irish and Scottish, which makes perfect sense with my family history. But since the update it says that I'm 13% Germanic. That seems like quite a sizable amount. My mother's results say she is 18% Germanic and now has a random 2% Icelandic. Does this mean I have a relatively recent German ancestor somewhere? I know in the past I disregarded my paternal uncle having 1% Senegal in his results and that actually did turn out to mean something.

Offline TonyV

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Re: DNA ethnicity question
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 13 November 24 21:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi Penmaiden

If you scroll down the recent topics you will find one entitled "Ancestry 2024 recent changes" or similar (can't see it while I answer you!). It deals with your question in great detail if you follow all the answers.

Cheers
Tony

Offline Biggles50

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Re: DNA ethnicity question
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 14 November 24 07:51 GMT (UK) »
Read this

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=887178.0

Also given Ancestry time and I am pretty sure that they will add a Klingon reference group to their ethnicity predictions such is the vast level of changes that has occurred over the years.

As it is Ancestry’s ethnicity is more “loose guidelines”.

Offline brigidmac

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Re: DNA ethnicity question
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 12 December 24 04:23 GMT (UK) »
I'm a fan of ethnicity the tweeking comes from new groupings such as the Germanic one

I'm finding 5cm Germanic  amount coming up for someone I'm helping with father unknown

Matches are all fairly distant at.3rd cousin level but several have this ethnicity and one with 12% does indeed have a German ancestor .
So I've made a specific colour code for all matches with any Germanic
Her daughter only has 1%
The matches also have high Welsh ethnicity
My friend has an Irish mother
+A mostly Welsh father with absolutely no English ethnicity

I have 12% Ashkenazi Jewish my cousins have 11-13% we have a great grandfather who was Jewish
my mother has 24%


Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson


Offline KGarrad

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Re: DNA ethnicity question
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 12 December 24 06:14 GMT (UK) »
The Ethnicity percentages are about as accurate as your daily horoscope!  :D

I refuse to have anything to do with DNA.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Albufera32

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Re: DNA ethnicity question
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 12 December 24 20:53 GMT (UK) »
This is my attempt to explain how the Ancestral Regions work (and obviously is my interpretation of Ancestry's explanation).

The first thing to understand is that there is no such thing as "German" DNA, any more than there is English, Scottish or Irish DNA. All there is, is DNA which is more or less prevalent today in people with Scottish, Irish, German or English descent.

The second thing is to consider what Ancestry actually does - which may not be quite what the marketing blurb sometimes suggests.

What Ancestry does, is form reference panels of, in their words "people with deep family roots in a specific geographic area or cultural group". What that means is they use people whose families can be shown to have lived in a particular region for several generations. So their German reference panel (which at 2000 members is the same size as the Scottish and Irish reference panels) consists of people who have established roots living in Germany for several generations.

They then analyse the DNA of the people in the reference panel, measure the percentages of people who have each of 1001 separate segments, and use these percentages to decide on the "origin" of any particular segment.

Let us call one of these segments the "Abba" segment. It turns out the Abba segment is quite common in the Scottish reference group - about 40% say. It is also quite common in Germany (let's say 38%) and Norway (62%), but as I'm sure you've guessed already, I'm going to make this particular segment most common in Sweden (75%, say). (Just in case it's isn't obvious, I'm making these numbers up, I have no idea what typical ranges they get.) The point is, now that they have have measured the percentage abundance of the said segment, the "Abba segment is now categorised as "Swedish".

Now they analyse my DNA. It turns out I have the said Abba segment, so Ancestry now allocates 1 of my 1001 segments as Swedish. This does not mean I must have gained that segment from a long lost Swedish ancestor - it just means I have a particular segment of DNA which is more common NOW in people whose families lived in Sweden for several generations in the past than in any of their other reference groups.

Should Ancestry find 10 such "Swedish" segments, that is 10/1001, ie roughly 1% so it now classes me as 1% Swedish. BUT, because each of those MAY in fact be from Scottish ancestors given that, as with my earlier example of my entirely fictitious Abba segment, those segments may also be relatively common here in Scotland, they put an error range of between 0 and 1% on my Swedish ancestry.

Given that the UK has during it's history been invaded by Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings from various parts of Scandinavia as well as Norman French, has provided refuge to many exiles from religious or other forms of prosecution, and has in turn fought over or invaded large parts of the globe, it is perhaps not surprising that we share a lot of those segments with many other groups.

What all that means is that what used to be called ethnicity estimates are just that - glorified guesses based on statistics and probability - which only indicate that you share DNA with people whose ancestors are from a particular region in the past. If you want the fuller picture look at the ranges on the given identified regions.

Most importantly, always remember that DNA is only one more piece of evidence that might link you to a given ancestor.
Howie (Riccarton Ayrshire)
McNeil/ McNeill (Argyll)
Main (Airdrie Lanarkshire)
Grant (Lanarkshire and Bo'ness)
More (Lanarkshire)
Ure (Polmont)
Colligan (Lanarkshire)
Drinnan (New Zealand)

Offline Biggles50

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Re: DNA ethnicity question
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 12 December 24 23:04 GMT (UK) »
The Ethnicity percentages are about as accurate as your daily horoscope!  :D

I refuse to have anything to do with DNA.
[/b]

Then you do not have proof that your Family Tree is accurate.

Paperwork alone is worth nothing unless it is validated by DNA.


Offline brigidmac

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Re: DNA ethnicity question
« Reply #7 on: Friday 13 December 24 06:44 GMT (UK) »
 Borders are flexible so albufera s explanation is very good

However there is a misconception that's cestry results are based on where people SAY they are from on trees

Many of my Jewish matches haveno idea where there families came from before emigration but there are known DNA indicators that have been proven to link to their communities in very specific regions this is enhanced because these communities were quite small and there were a lot of cousin marriages .I only have 1 Ashkenazi great grandfather + have found some links .

When my mother took DNA test over 15 year s ago Welsh Irish and Scottish were all classified together
Now individual markings can distinguish them

I'm hoping that specific groups for Cornwall .isle of wight .& manx will also appear .

I'm wondering if these high "Germanic" readings are connected to  particular regions
I have a maternal cousin who is showing 10 percent Germanic

Kgarrad I think you are missing out
I wonder why you read posts on the DNA forum if you are so sceptical
If you haven't taken a test yourself or researched the science you can't really comment constructively
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline coombs

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Re: DNA ethnicity question
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 14 December 24 12:29 GMT (UK) »
DNA testing will certainly help prove or disprove lines. One day the autosomal DNA testing may help you break through brickwalls in the 1700s. Although DNA testing is not all cut and dried, and can be difficult to understand. It will be handy for ancestors who said "not born in county" of residence in the 1841 census but the Grim Reaper claimed them before the night of 30th March 1851.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain