Author Topic: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?  (Read 2108 times)

Offline CheshireSteve

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #18 on: Friday 27 December 24 12:06 GMT (UK) »
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4586973/4586977/29/George%2BOR%2BGriffith

George Griffith and Robert Glyn Griffith were brothers.

I suspected as much, thanks for the confirmation.

Steve

Offline CheshireSteve

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #19 on: Friday 27 December 24 12:09 GMT (UK) »
Chester Chronicle 17 May 1815.
R G Griffith Lloftwen is in a list of subscribers for a Military trophy.
  Below him is a George Griffith Wrexham Fechan

His death obit in the papers in 1857 say he was the last surviving captain of the Old Wrexham Volunteers enrolled for the Great War with France. So that ties in.

Steve

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #20 on: Friday 27 December 24 19:01 GMT (UK) »
I am having a problem following back up the family tree from Edward Griffith (Sarah's husband).

Edward married Sarah Smith (father Thomas Smith) in 1778. They only had the one child, Elizabeth, before Edward died in 1780. I don't know his age at death, but he names his wife and daughter in his will, so we know we have the right will.

Property transactions in Esclusham strongly suggest that Sarah inherited property bought by Anne Griffith (widow of Edward Griffith of Vrondeg d1708). After her husband's death Anne is listed as of Morton Wallicorum (now Johnstown). Anne's son, Edward, was named in a 1724 transaction as her son and heir apparent. It seems very unlikely that it is the same Edward that married in 1778, so I probably have missed a generation.

The will of Edward Griffith of Vrondeg seems to be missing, but his wife, Anne, and John and Edward Griffith are named as executors.

https://archives.library.wales/index.php/letters-of-administration-with-will-annexed-of-goods-of-edward-griffith-of-vrondeg-in-p-wrexham-co-denb-yeoman

Edward Griffith of Bersham appears in a property transaction in Esclusham in 1764, and I see no mention of Morton Wallicorum other than when Anne lived there c1708-1725, and a property transaction of Sarah Griffith in 1803 which mentions among other properties "a toft or meese place and lands called Bryndinas in the township of Morton Wallicorum in the parish of Rhuabon". This lists properties not only in Esclusham, but also Holt, Llanfair Dyffryn Clwyd, and Lampint Street in Wrexham.

https://calmview.bangor.ac.uk/Calmview/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=BMSSXI%2F19%2F1%2F17525

Some bits of the jigsaw are missing, but its coming together. There are other Griffith/s around which complicates things, but this family appear to be Griffith rather than Griffiths. Variations in the use of local names can be a challenge too, one that amused me was Penygelli written as Pen y Belly, but we have vrondeg and frondeg, and a host more.

Steve

Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #21 on: Friday 27 December 24 19:31 GMT (UK) »
 https://discover.library.wales/permalink/44WHELF_NLW/cn21ca/alma99157340202419

Have you got this. Edward was a widower.

Griffiths, Edward, wid., Wrexham, Denbighshire to Smith, Sarah, sp., Wrexham, Denbighshire : 1778 Jan. 26
Marriage bonds, ca. 1690-1837 99230987302419

Marriage at Wrexham
marriage bond.
Creation Date 1778




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Offline CheshireSteve

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #22 on: Friday 27 December 24 22:28 GMT (UK) »
https://discover.library.wales/permalink/44WHELF_NLW/cn21ca/alma99157340202419

Have you got this. Edward was a widower.

Griffiths, Edward, wid., Wrexham, Denbighshire to Smith, Sarah, sp., Wrexham, Denbighshire : 1778 Jan. 26
Marriage bonds, ca. 1690-1837 99230987302419

Marriage at Wrexham
marriage bond.
Creation Date 1778

Good spot !

Interesting, though his will (link provided by someone earlier) doesn't mention any direct family except Sarah and his child Elizabeth. Presumably his earlier wife died without any children.

It does mention some other people in Marchweil, surname appears to be Jenny, or Fenny. Could be family or maybe business. Haven't looked into that yet.

Steve


Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #23 on: Friday 27 December 24 22:49 GMT (UK) »


http://www.clwydsurnames2.uk/F.html


This is a site created by a lady I know of. It's an index of names  entries in Clwyd Parish Registers transcripts.
It's useful enough to see where names may be found.
We have Fenny in Marchwiel with the dates of the booklets that have been published

566 Marchwiel Vol 1 Baptisms 1652-1700 Marriages 1665-1700 Burials 1662-1700
489 Marchwiel Vol 2 Baptisms, Marriages & Burials 1701-1750
 75 Marchwiel Vol 3 Baptisms, Marriages & Burials 1751-1812
266 Marchwiel Vol 4 Baptisms & Burials 1813-1837, Marriages 1814-1837
561 Marchwiel Vol 5 Baptisms & Burials 1838-1910 Marriages 1837-1910

FENNY   75 Marchwiel: Elizabeth, Martha, Mary, Samuel, Simon;
                 311 Hawarden: 15 Feb 1761 bap/o Willm s/o wm & Margt, Broad Lane
                 489 Marchwiel
                Misc: 1841 Census Wrexham Town: Tuttle Street: Owen        50  Shoe m.       born I.
                                                                                         Mary         49                     born I.                            
                                      + Michael 15, James 11, Catherine 9, Elizabeth 3 - all not born In County
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Offline CheshireSteve

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 28 December 24 11:23 GMT (UK) »
With so many members of the Fenny family mentioned in Edward's 1780 will I am having a surprising amount of trouble finding any information. I though they might be a clue to the earlier marriage given the gifts in the will.

So still stuck on Edward's dob, and first marriage.

Steve

Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 28 December 24 15:29 GMT (UK) »
I had a look at the Fenny names in Marchwiel . It doesn`t help much . There are lots of Fennahs but that will is written so clearly that it is definitely spelt as Fenny.

Fenny Marchwiel

Samuel Fenny Marriage 28 Oct 1696 Spouse Joan James ( another for same date  has Jane James)
(Unknown)  Son of Samuel Fenny born 26 Jan 1697

Samuel Fenny Burial 15 Apr 1732

Elizabeth Fenny Burial 23 Oct 1737 Spouse Simon

John Fenny Burial 17 Oct 1740 (John Fenny`s child of Gresford.)

Elizabeth Fenny . (The bastard Child)  Burial 31 Oct 1760 Mother Elizabeth

John Fenny of the parish of Bangor  Burial 31 Jan 1770

Simon Fenny Burial 30 May 1766

Jane Fenny Burial 20 Feb 1817 Spouse Samuel



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Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 28 December 24 16:20 GMT (UK) »
 These Fenny people are really difficult, where did they come from.

Names in the will , with my notes
1780 Edward Griffith, Llofft Wen, Wrexham, Denbigh, Gent
Sarah my wife . Young enough to remarry and have more children.  But if she does remarry she forfeits all she has been left.

Only daughter Elizabeth , who is not of full age .

Rev Edward Davies schoolmaster of Wrexham

Ellis Rogers

John son of Simon Fenny of Marchwiel.

Elizabeth daughter of John Fenny , and  sister of the above Simon Fenny.

Two of the heirs of Pen Celli,  Bala. Whether they be man or woman. Confusing !

James Fenny

Mary sister of Elizabeth daughter of John Fenny.
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