Author Topic: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?  (Read 2105 times)

Online CheshireSteve

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #36 on: Tuesday 31 December 24 12:40 GMT (UK) »


Elizabeth Griffiths
Birth Date16 Jan 1779  Baptism Date 6 Feb 1779
Baptism Place Wrexham
Father Edward

Original image has Eliz. daughter of Edwd Griffiths of LLOFTWEN.   No mothers name. No occupation.

That makes sense. Married Jan 1778, daughter in Jan 1779, sadly he died in May 1780.

Steve

Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #37 on: Tuesday 31 December 24 18:21 GMT (UK) »
I am having a problem following back up the family tree from Edward Griffith (Sarah's husband).



Property transactions in Esclusham strongly suggest that Sarah inherited property bought by Anne Griffith (widow of Edward Griffith of Vrondeg d1708). After her husband's death Anne is listed as of Morton Wallicorum (now Johnstown). Anne's son, Edward, was named in a 1724 transaction as her son and heir apparent. It seems very unlikely that it is the same Edward that married in 1778, so I probably have missed a generation.

The will of Edward Griffith of Vrondeg seems to be missing, but his wife, Anne, and John and Edward Griffith


Will of Edward Griffith 1708  🙂

https://viewer.library.wales/760496
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Online CheshireSteve

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #38 on: Tuesday 31 December 24 23:25 GMT (UK) »
Quote

The will of Edward Griffith of Vrondeg seems to be missing, but his wife, Anne, and John and Edward Griffith


Will of Edward Griffith 1708  🙂

https://viewer.library.wales/760496

Well done, I thought it was lost. It confirms two sons, Edward and John, seemingly of age to act as executors, and his wife Ann. It names two nephews Francis Edwards and William Davies. If I read it correctly he gives money to Richard ap David John Eyton to distribute to Edward's servants. I am still struggling to make some bits out. There is a gift to his son John of £30 by way of a mortgage of the lands of William Williams of Hafod y Bwlch.

Interesting stuff. We know Edward's wife Anne and 'her son and heir apparent Edward' were named on property transactions to 1724/5, and we have the marriage of Edward and Sarah in 1778 - so a 54 year gap, though there was an Edward Griffith buying property and land in Esclusham in 1764 (including y Kae tan y twy, y Weirgloth, Kaer Skibor and y Kae gwydd mawr).

Could be a tricky gap to fill, maybe two intermediate generations, quite likely all called Edward.

All the best for 2025
Steve

Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #39 on: Sunday 05 January 25 12:52 GMT (UK) »
I had a look at the Fenny names in Marchwiel . It doesn`t help much . There are lots of Fennahs but that will is written so clearly that it is definitely spelt as Fenny.

Fenny Marchwiel

Samuel Fenny Marriage 28 Oct 1696 Spouse Joan James ( another for same date  has Jane James)
(Unknown)  Son of Samuel Fenny born 26 Jan 1697

Samuel Fenny Burial 15 Apr 1732

Elizabeth Fenny Burial 23 Oct 1737 Spouse Simon

John Fenny Burial 17 Oct 1740 (John Fenny`s child of Gresford.)

Elizabeth Fenny . (The bastard Child)  Burial 31 Oct 1760 Mother Elizabeth

John Fenny of the parish of Bangor  Burial 31 Jan 1770

Simon Fenny Burial 30 May 1766

Jane Fenny Burial 20 Feb 1817 Spouse Samuel

It may be worth looking at variations of Fenny.
The Samuel Fenny died 1766 made a will. In that his name is Fennah,  wife Mary.
He was a maltster of Gresford.  I know he isn't mentioned in the Griffith will but it's the various spellings I'm thinking about
The Tithe maps have a Thomas Fenna landowner in Esclusham Above.

http://www.clwydsurnames2.uk/F.html
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Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #40 on: Sunday 05 January 25 13:11 GMT (UK) »
Ignore the Samuel of Gresford. He did die 1766 but  I have got Simon and Samuel mixed up

Sorry 😉
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Online CheshireSteve

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 07 January 25 19:55 GMT (UK) »
The last property transaction I can find for Anne Griffith is in August 1724, and she is back at Vrondeg (recorded as Vron Deg so tricky to find). North East Wales Archives DD/CP/659.

Edward Griffith is still at 'Frondeg' in 1747 when he leases two messuages in Bersham and one in Esclusham. NEWA DD/PP/240,

I am told that according to A.N.Palmer (‘13 Townships’, Bersham p.79, para 64) Edward Griffith son and heir of Anne was at the large house called Pen-y-Gelli by 1752 according to a rate book.

So we seem to have a continuous thread of Griffith occupation in the immediate area. However there is a lot we don't know. The Edward that married Sarah was a widower, so who was he married to before - presumably a childless relationship as Elizabeth is his only heir? Finding this marriage might help decide his age. It seems very unlikely that the Edward that married Sarah in 1778 should be the same Edward, son and heir of Anne, in 1708.

Steve

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #42 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 12:32 GMT (UK) »


You can get a digital image of the Marriage Bond for £2.00.

Griffiths, Edward, wid., Wrexham, Denbighshire to Smith, Sarah, sp., Wrexham, Denbighshire : 1778 Jan. 26.

You have send an email to the NLW and they send you an order form. You probably know that already.

It might help.

Email: enquiry@llgc.org.uk
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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #43 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 12:43 GMT (UK) »
I've been looking for births,  burials for Edward,  Anne , John and , Edward the sons but finding nothing that fits.
I would have thought Edward would be in Wrexham as he left money to the Church, 
Or possibly Ruabon, but nothing positive. Of course the problem is that ages are not given that early and we can only guess.







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Online CheshireSteve

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Re: Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?
« Reply #44 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 23:13 GMT (UK) »
I've been looking for births,  burials for Edward,  Anne , John and , Edward the sons but finding nothing that fits.
I would have thought Edward would be in Wrexham as he left money to the Church, 
Or possibly Ruabon, but nothing positive. Of course the problem is that ages are not given that early and we can only guess.

I am delighted you are still pursuing this, you clearly have a lot of experience in finding information.

I found a will for a John Griffith in 1722 in Marchwiel. John was a named son (as executor) in the 1708 will of Edward Griffith. Edward also mentioned the Fennys of Marchwiel. So maybe that is the link - pretty tenuous I know, and I have yet to decode it. https://viewer.library.wales/357195#?xywh=-91%2C0%2C1529%2C1020&cv=1

Maybe a red herring, but there has to be a Marchwiel connection with Edward senior.

Steve

Steve