Griffith Family of Lloftwen, Pengelli, now Coedpoeth - 1851 census?

[wilcoxon]

1782 will of Elizabeth Roberts widow.
Sons William. John. Owen. Edward Roberts. Daughter Mary Griffiths.

http://hdl.handle.net/10107/1013463

1776 will of Owen Roberts,  Ridley Wood.

Eldest son William Roberts.  Son John Roberts. Grandson Owen Roberts son of Owen Roberts. Grandson John Roberts son of John Roberts. Daughter Mary Roberts. Wife Elizabeth Roberts.  Son Edward Roberts (unmarried)
A mortgage with Thos Hagman. ?
Wife Elizabeth and son Edward are executors.
Mary Roberts must have married a Griffiths between 1776 and 1782.
No marriage has been found. It's possible that Mary Roberts married an unknown who died and she married again as a widow with another surname.

Wrexham PRs

Owen son of Owen Roberts born 16 February 1738 baptised 4 March. Of Esclu Above. ***

A Mary Roberts born 23 March baptised 1 April 1750. Father Owen of Ridley.

Edward son of Owen Roberts born 25 March 1747 baptised 5 April 1747. of Ridley Wood.

William Roberts born 27 August 1744 baptised 30 August 1744. Son of  Owen of Ridley Holt.

Overton PRs just a wild shot.
A baptism of John Roberts on 14 December 1729 at Overton is the only match found.
 Son of Owen Roberts of Overton Villa, joyner and Elizabeth his wife. Overton Villa wasn't a dwelling,  it was part of the parish of Overton.

No marriage found for Owen Roberts and Elizabeth that fits.

Holt PRs

Owen Roberts interred 16 October 1774
Father Owen of Holt.

Owen son of Owen Roberts of Holt interred 26 January 1775.

29 January 1820
Owen Roberts aged 89 buried, of Ridley. b  c 1739 ***

There's a lot of Owen Roberts in there 🙂

It's annoying that we can't find Mary Griffiths though.

[wilcoxon]

The 1776 will of Owen Roberts seems to be signed in 1770, so he could be either of the burials in 1774 and 1775. The will wasn't proven till 1776.

[wilcoxon]

A John Griffith and a Mary Roberts were married by banns on 22 July 1771 at Chester St Mary's.  Both otp. Both made X.
Witnesses John Cooper and Sarah Gore .
so after Owen Roberts made his will.

A Richard Griffith husbandsman of Ruabon married an Elizabeth Griffith by licence at the same place on 25 June 1771. Witnesses Henry Forrester and Margaret Price.
Both made X

So obviously used by people from over the border.
Still no Griffith / Mary Roberts in Wales.

[wilcoxon]

See reply 72.
Thomas Hagman is Thomas Hayman.  He was an attorney and his name is in many of the legal records linked to the families we have found. 

[CheshireSteve]

Wrexham
2 burial entries for Edward Roberts on 19 November 1825   on different registers
Both have age 80 b c 1745
Abode Vronday / Vrondeg
The other one has Esclusham Above

Elizabeth Roberts buried 23 December 1782 of EA.. Esclusham Above probably

Wow, stunning research.

Good to have an age for Edward Roberts, though I thought the will was 1826. Perhaps its was written in 1825 and proved in 1826. I can't quite read the date.

What you have found on the Roberts seems to agree with a tree on familysearch - which follows the Roberts back to Owen Roberts born Ridley, 1710. I am not sure when Edward Roberts moved to Esclusham Above, but it seems his daughter Ellinor was born there in 1783, so maybe after he married.

So Edward Roberts died in Vrondeg in 1825, which in this case I think refers to the area rather than the specific house, which I think was the case for Edward and Anne Griffith. When Edward Roberts jnr and his sister Elizabeth Roberts died in 1838 they were living as tenants at Penymynydd Farm, which seems to lie outside Vrondeg.

I will have to try and digest all this info on Sunday. It looks like another grey day.

Steve

[CheshireSteve]

I have been adding the Roberts family info to a family tree to organise my thoughts (as I did for the Griffith family - though with the Griffith's I have the big uncertainty about whether we have missed out a Griffith or have an extremely unlikely marriage of a very elderly man to a young woman and a resulting child).

I spotted a problem with the dates for the children of Owen Roberts of Ridley. In his will of 1770 he names William as his eldest son, and then also leaves bequests to sons John, Owen, Edward and daughter Mary (also to his wife and grandchildren). The Parish Record "Owen son of Owen Roberts born 16 February 1738 baptised 4 March. Of Esclu Above. ***" would make Owen the eldest son.

I can entirely believe that he would name his first son Owen the same as himself, it is common practice, though also the father may use his father's name. Perhaps the Owen of 1738 didn't make it, and he named another child Owen later. However I see your three asterisks are saying the Owen born 1739 is a pretty close match with an Owen Roberts who died in Ridley aged 89 in 1820. I think you are right, there were a lot of Owens in Ridley !

The other strange thing is that Owen senior's sons apart from Owen of 1738 are 'of Ridley', and he is 'of Ridley' in his will of 1770. So perhaps it was his son Edward who decided to seek pastures new in Esclusham Above. Although Owen's wife, Elizabeth, in her will of 1782 is of Esclusham, she may have moved in with her children after her husband died.

My reading of Owen senior's will is that the grandson via his son Owen, is named William rather than Owen.

As for the family trees, the Mary Roberts to Griffith marriage is a tricky one. Tempting to think the two families are linked.

Steve

[CheshireSteve]

Looking through old papers I have a Mary Griffiths of Vron Deg (widow) in  Chester Chronicle - Friday 14 August 1812, page 2. There is notice of a sale of many properties in 4 in Llanarmon in Ial, 13 in Kilkin (though many are single fields), and 2 in Wrexham parish, all being lands of inheritance. Usefully the properties are tabulated with property names and tenants names. There are 2 in Wrexham :

Plas yn Vron, 101 acres, tenant Edward Roberts aged 70 with the tenancy for the life of the tenant
Vron Deg, 54 acres, tenant Mary Griffiths (widow), with tenancy on a year by year basis.

In June/July 1816 there are numerous adverts in the papers for an auction of a single property called 'Fron' n Esclusham of 40 acres, held by the tenant Edward Roberts. Described as "a very desirable and compact farm, with a good farmhouse .... with 3 cottages attached. ... The farm lies within a ring fence and is in the immediate vicinity of lime and coal. It is believged that the Minera lead vein runs through the property... The sheepwalk belonging to the estate is one of the most extensive in the country."

They point out that the value will be improved if the Esclusham enclosure act goes through - which as far as I can tell was rejected.

Steve

[CheshireSteve]

Chester Courant - Tuesday 07 June 1825 - Auction of property - Lot VI "A dwelling house and garden with 2 crofts to the same belonging, situate in Esclusham above, in the parish of Wrexham, in the county of Denbigh, now or late in the holding of Mary Griffiths."

Not sure I would want to read "now or late" against my name in the papers!

The same property had been for sale by auction on 30 Sept 1824, as item 1 in an auction where item 2 was "The Great Rock Lime Works" of Minera with 4 kilns, limestone quarry and 3 stone quarries. But thats a different story. The Mary Griffths property is described as "The inheritance in fee of and in a small dwelling-house and garden with 2 crofts to the same belonging, situate in esclusham above, in the parish of Wrexham, in the county of Denbigh, in the holding of Mary Griffiths."

[wilcoxon]

It's a very big jigsaw puzzle 

A Mary Griffiths aged 86 b 1747 buried 5 June 1833 at Wrexham.
Of Esclusham Above.

This is the best shot as regards to abode and age. Age is a little bit out but at that age there's a margin of error.

No will found.