Author Topic: RSM of 3 Commando RAC John Duncan Allen awarded George Medal in July 1943  (Read 910 times)

Offline *Sandra*

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 59,720
  • Marie Curie
    • View Profile
Re: RSM of 3 Commando RAC John Duncan Allen awarded George Medal in July 1943
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 00:29 GMT (UK) »


According to a newspaper report of the marriage (29 April 1960) of the daughter J.R. 
(born to the couple birth registered in March 1938)  It was her Uncle David Wardley who gave her away and she was described as the daughter of Mrs M Allen of 20 Alma Street. Wivenhoe, Essex  (no mention of her father)

The East Kent Times and Mail
Ramsgate, Kent.
Fri, 29 Apr 1960
Page 13

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-east-kent-times-and-mail/162522217/

Sandra
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline Babel

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: RSM of 3 Commando RAC John Duncan Allen awarded George Medal in July 1943
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 02:50 GMT (UK) »
An overwhelming number of responses to my post, thanks to all of you, much appreciate your interest, especially to you Sandra. Unfortunate however that most of the responsive interest was focussed on John's ancestors and of life from his birth in Canada to the end of WW2. My post had however, called for any information of his existence post 1949. I have his entire life documented prior to 1949, all thanks to my friendship with John's granddaughter here in Australia where we both live. We had a person-to-person meeting just last Saturday in Perth, her mother (JR as mentioned by you Sandra) still lives in Essex in England. Her mother is still mystified as to her father John's 'disappearance' post 1949, and as Sandra did indicate, he was not present at her wedding in April 1960. She (JR) the eldest of 5 siblings. A sixth child, a daughter died in 1945 aged 8.                 
The following summarises deployment of John Allen's then regiment 13th/18th Hussars post WW2. John could have been part of that deployment. He was clearly a career soldier.
The regiment was posted to Northampton Barracks in Wolfenbüttel in March 1946 and returned to the United Kingdom to its new base at Willems Barracks in Aldershot Garrison in October 1947. It was deployed to Libya in February 1948, to Egypt in April 1950 and to Malaya, for service as an armoured car regiment during the Malayan Emergency, in June 1950. It returned to Wolfenbüttel in November 1953 and then moved to McLeod Barracks at Neumünster in April 1956 from where it deployed a squadron to Aden. It returned to Malaya and was posted to Ramillies Camp at Ipoh in July 1958. I have found no reference to their deploying troops during the Korean War 1950-1953. A military discharge and/or death of John are the missing pieces of his data. Note: Cornwall's population includes more Allens and Allans than anywhere else. I have Allen ancestors of Cornwall. It's far too easy to assume that a John Duncan ALLAN's (note spelling) death recorded at Liskeard in 1976 is our quarry. Most unlikely.

Offline mckha489

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,565
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: RSM of 3 Commando RAC John Duncan Allen awarded George Medal in July 1943
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 02:57 GMT (UK) »
Looking at it from another point of view - If the one who died in Liskeard is not the correct man, who is he?

surname recorded as Allan rather than Allen in burial reg & GRO index

Offline mckha489

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,565
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: RSM of 3 Commando RAC John Duncan Allen awarded George Medal in July 1943
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 03:09 GMT (UK) »
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/261ec832-a06e-49aa-b505-eb7b83835ada


Working as a supervisor for a firm of Bath engineers


Offline Babel

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: RSM of 3 Commando RAC John Duncan Allen awarded George Medal in July 1943
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 07:01 GMT (UK) »
Thank you mckha489. Very useful news cutting re Bath employment. Confirms his presence in Bristol- Bath area c1949, providing a new lead perhaps. Much appreciated. 

Offline Andy J2022

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,895
    • View Profile
Re: RSM of 3 Commando RAC John Duncan Allen awarded George Medal in July 1943
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 14:22 GMT (UK) »
           
The following [excluded from this quote] summarises deployment of John Allen's then regiment 13th/18th Hussars post WW2. John could have been part of that deployment. He was clearly a career soldier.
I assume from the words 'could have' that you don't have his service record. As I mentioned in an earlier posting the Royal Armoured Corps ledger (extract below) clearly shows that he was transferred to the Z Reserve on 15 December 1945, and this is supported by the entry on the Commando Association website. On that basis I think it is less likely that he continued to serve. As a Warrant Officer Class 1 (the rank of an RSM) he is unlikely to have been able to return to his old unit the 13/18th Hussars, firstly because the Regiment would most likely already have an RSM, and possibly a pecking order to replace him, and secondly because he had very little armoured experience since he transferred to 3 Commando as a private in July 1940.

It is possible that he rejoined (he was only 37 afterall) after 1945 but he might well have had to accept a reduction in rank and be employed outside his old unit, possibly in a training establishment. That would certainly account for him being in the Westbury area which is adjacent to Warminster, home to the School of Infantry among several other training establishments, and the later possible sighting in the Bath/Bristol area.

You can obtain his service record using the following link: https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-records-of-service/apply-for-the-records-of-a-deceased-serviceperson

Offline Babel

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: RSM of 3 Commando RAC John Duncan Allen awarded George Medal in July 1943
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 14:48 GMT (UK) »
Thank you AndyJ2022 for supplying John Duncan Allen's military data. It has now been established by others  that he worked in the private sector at a Bath engineering business in October 1949. You are thus correct in suggesting that he was unlikely to have continued to serve. The only interest for me now is to establish what life experiences transpired and where beyond October 1949, i.e. until his death, a matter which remains unknown.

Online Sc00p

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: RSM of 3 Commando RAC John Duncan Allen awarded George Medal in July 1943
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 17:00 GMT (UK) »
Following up the 1949 Address gives a few more clues to follow/eliminate...
Gloucester Citizen 18-Aug-1950 p 3
Apartments Wanted.

Young Married Couple - has he remarried?
No Family - Estranged/divorced from Mildred and children?
D. Allan  - Was he known as Duncan or is it Wifes initial?
Gloster 24427 9am-4pm - Work Telephone?

Offline mckha489

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,565
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: RSM of 3 Commando RAC John Duncan Allen awarded George Medal in July 1943
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 17:23 GMT (UK) »
As the telephone number is a daytime one, I thought it might be where he was working but the only hit is this car for sale advertisement.  same paper, different (earlier) date. No indication if it is him though

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/6b507f57-52cb-454f-9b98-2188ccab2244