John Rainford, burial, Liverpool, 1820s

[jonwarrn]

This might be pertinent from the OP's original thread. Elizabeth born in Lincoln.

There is an 1851 census entry for Elizabeth, though:
42 Bolton Street, Liverpool
Elizabeth Knowles   Servant   Widow       54   Formerly Butcher’s wife      Lincoln

Elizabeth died in June 1852 and the certificates states she was the widow of Joshua Knowles, Butcher, and that she died in Liverpool.

[jonwarrn]

St. Stephen's, Liverpool:
16 Dec 1833, Joshua Knowles (Joshua and Elizabeth, residence Hunter St. father's occupation: butcher) - Buried on 1 Jan 1834

I initially thought he died in June 1834, as there is a burial record (Necropolis, Low Hill Cemetery, Liverpool: 2 July 1834, Joshua Knowles, aged 42, of Hunter Street).

Baptism: 27 Sep 1829 Christ Church, Hunter Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James Knowles - Son of Joshua Knowles & Mary
    Abode: Brownhills Court
    Occupation: Butcher

..............this has to be your Joshuas death - we know he lived in Brownhills Court ,Hunter Street in 1829 ..and would think he was still there when he died 5 years later

May be nothing, mention that there is a burial at the Necropolis of a Mary Rainford, 28 September 1830.
Age 52. Residence Hunter Street.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJM-DFFM

Order Book, five from bottom
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJM-1FCX

[jonwarrn]

More speculation, could be way off of course.

Baptism at Hibaldstow, 31 July 1796. It's not Lincoln, but it's in Lincolnshire!
Elizabeth Rainford, daughter of John & Mary
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYP4-PR7

Mum is indexed as both Mary and Elisabeth on findmypast. Elis on FreeReg.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/581895b8e93790ec8bbcbd7f

If she was born just shortly before it would make Elizabeth 20 on the marriage in Liverpool in January 1817.

Two others?
John Rainforth, 8 June 1798. Parents John & Mary
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/581895b8e93790ec8bbcbe06

Charles Rainforth, 4 Dec 1801. Parents John & Mary
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/581895b8e93790ec8bbcbeec

Marriage at Hibaldstow, 30 May 1796
John Rainford and Mary Ellis. By licence
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5818080fe93790eb7f12764e

[jonwarrn]

A baptism at Hibaldstow, 27 November 1777
Mary Eless, daughter of William and Sarah
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/581895b6e93790ec8bbcbaeb

Brother Dixon, 1766, could be the marriage witness in 1796?
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/581895b6e93790ec8bbcb916

Seems there was no birth date given on Mary's baptism, but potentially it could make a reasonable match with that Liverpool burial. Again it's all just speculation.

burial at the Necropolis of a Mary Rainford, 28 September 1830.
Age 52. Residence Hunter Street.

[ShaunJ]

The Baines 1824 directory (posted earlier) lists John Rainford, butcher, 2 Dawson Place, Hunter Street

[jonwarrn]

That's good Shaun. Hunter Street is something we can fix on, along with London Road
It's the moving around, far and wide, that you noted of John, or both the Johns at one time or another, that is causing some confusion (to me anyway!)
 

[liverpoolgenealogy]

Thank you all for your research and help!  I have more information, or potential information about John now than ever! Even if there is a little bit of new confusion added.

I think the Mary Rainford that died in Hunter Street and was buried in the Necropolis is likely to be right! Joshua and Elizabeth were the only relatives in my family I had known to be buried in that cemetery, so there is a chance that her mother may have been to, and the address makes this likely, I think.

I also forgot to point this out before, but there were other Rainford relatives in Liverpool. Elizabeth and Joshua's daughter, Jane's, marriage certificate in 1835 gives Mary Ann Rainford as one of the witnesses. Perhaps John and Mary may have brought over a sister of Elizabeth, who never married, or a son who had a daughter, but does show there could be quite a few Rainford's. 

[jonwarrn]

Re the Hibaldstow marriage in 1796, it's also indexed on FamilySearch in England, Lincolnshire, Marriage Bonds and Allegations, 1574-1885
John Rainford was 23 (and upwards I guess) and Mary Ellis was 19, so a minor like Elizabeth in 1817!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6ZHZ-JCYB

There is also some sort of transcript taken from either the bond or allegation, or both, on findmypast in Lincolnshire Marriages and Banns. I don't know right now whether this transcript has any further info that might help tell us if it could be the right John.

[liverpoolgenealogy]

Looking on FindMyPast: Lincolnshire Marriage and Banns brings up four entries for the marriage in Hibaldstow, 1796. Two are transcriptions of the marriage record, and the marriage licence, no new information on there. The third is a scan of the original marriage record. The fourth is a record that seems to be a summary of the baptisms and marriages at the parish for the whole year. John Rainford and Mary Ellis are listed as being married on 30th May, but the baptism for Elizabeth Rainford is also listed, that lists her as daughter of John and Elizabeth July 31.