Author Topic: Marriage of Thomas Pierce and Elizabeth Jones  (Read 374 times)

Offline dmerry

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Re: Marriage of Thomas Pierce and Elizabeth Jones
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 01 February 25 11:59 GMT (UK) »
Thank you to both for your help.

I have been doing some more research on the siblings of Thomas Pierce, from his mother Dorothy.  Three are born before him - Owen 1839, Ann 1842 and Laura 1845.  There are no records on the GRO of Owen, Ann and Laura under the surname Pierce but there is under the surname Thomas with a mother's maiden name of Griffith.

I have found a record for Thomas Pierce on the GRO for 1848 with the mother's maiden name of Griffith and I have also found one for his younger sister Ellen Pierce again with the same Griffith but cannot find Jane as a Pierce.  You would think she should be, given she is also younger like Ellen.

From some earlier information which you kindly gave to me, there is a marriage of a Thomas Pierce to a Griffiths in 1848 which would mean that Dorothy (who was married first to William Thomas) has married again - but I can't find William's death to back it up and fit it altogether.  What a tangled we we weave :)  Any further help would be greatly appreciated.
 


Online wilcoxon

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Re: Marriage of Thomas Pierce and Elizabeth Jones
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 01 February 25 12:48 GMT (UK) »
Just pointing out. In the obituary Thomas is said to be  69.
Gro index
PIERCE, THOMAS    66  ..

Of course it depends on what age was given by the informant who may  have been Gwen Hughes.
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Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Marriage of Thomas Pierce and Elizabeth Jones
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 01 February 25 21:35 GMT (UK) »
Thank you to both for your help.

I have been doing some more research on the siblings of Thomas Pierce, from his mother Dorothy.  Three are born before him - Owen 1839, Ann 1842 and Laura 1845.  There are no records on the GRO of Owen, Ann and Laura under the surname Pierce but there is under the surname Thomas with a mother's maiden name of Griffith.

I have found a record for Thomas Pierce on the GRO for 1848 with the mother's maiden name of Griffith and I have also found one for his younger sister Ellen Pierce again with the same Griffith but cannot find Jane as a Pierce.  You would think she should be, given she is also younger like Ellen.

From some earlier information which you kindly gave to me, there is a marriage of a Thomas Pierce to a Griffiths in 1848 which would mean that Dorothy (who was married first to William Thomas) has married again - but I can't find William's death to back it up and fit it altogether.  What a tangled we we weave :)  Any further help would be greatly appreciated.

The only problem with that theory is that in 1871 and 1881 Dorothy Pierce's husband is called William. This is 1871

William Pierce    58
Dorothy Pierce    59    
Anne Pierce      29 Daughter
Laura Pierce     26  Daughter
Mary Pierce         8  Granddaughter
Elizabeth Pierce   4 Granddaughter
Thomas Pierce        4  Grandson
Evan Pierce             4   Grandson
Jane Pierce           1   Granddaughter
Ellin Pierce         14   Daughter


I also can't see an 1848 marriage for a Thomas Pierce?
Added - are you confusing the birth for Thomas Pierce in 1848 with mmn Griffiths that I posted before for a marriage?

Offline dmerry

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Re: Marriage of Thomas Pierce and Elizabeth Jones
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 02 February 25 12:57 GMT (UK) »
Thank you to both for your help.

I have been doing some more research on the siblings of Thomas Pierce, from his mother Dorothy.  Three are born before him - Owen 1839, Ann 1842 and Laura 1845.  There are no records on the GRO of Owen, Ann and Laura under the surname Pierce but there is under the surname Thomas with a mother's maiden name of Griffith.

I have found a record for Thomas Pierce on the GRO for 1848 with the mother's maiden name of Griffith and I have also found one for his younger sister Ellen Pierce again with the same Griffith but cannot find Jane as a Pierce.  You would think she should be, given she is also younger like Ellen.

From some earlier information which you kindly gave to me, there is a marriage of a Thomas Pierce to a Griffiths in 1848 which would mean that Dorothy (who was married first to William Thomas) has married again - but I can't find William's death to back it up and fit it altogether.  What a tangled we we weave :)  Any further help would be greatly appreciated.

The only problem with that theory is that in 1871 and 1881 Dorothy Pierce's husband is called William. This is 1871

William Pierce    58
Dorothy Pierce    59    
Anne Pierce      29 Daughter
Laura Pierce     26  Daughter
Mary Pierce         8  Granddaughter
Elizabeth Pierce   4 Granddaughter
Thomas Pierce        4  Grandson
Evan Pierce             4   Grandson
Jane Pierce           1   Granddaughter
Ellin Pierce         14   Daughter


I also can't see an 1848 marriage for a Thomas Pierce?
Added - are you confusing the birth for Thomas Pierce in 1848 with mmn Griffiths that I posted before for a marriage?

Hi Mabel

Yes I totally see what you mean - the words brain fog comes to mind.  However I have carried on digging for a marriage and found the following two entries on North Wales BMD

 Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)   Year    Church / Register Office   Registers At   Reference   Add to Summary
GRIFFITH *   Dorothy   PIERCE   William   1838   Criccieth, St Catherine   Gwynedd (Caernarfon)   DWYCRICCATH/1/E4   
GRIFFITH *   Dorothy   THOMAS   William   1838   Criccieth, St Catherine   Gwynedd (Caernarfon)   DWYCRICCATH/1/E4   

Not sure what to make of this, ie two  Dorothy's marrying in the same place at the same time with same the reference no.   Another option is perhaps William Thomas and William Pierce are the same person - can't get my head round this at all.  Any ideas greatly received.


Online wilcoxon

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Re: Marriage of Thomas Pierce and Elizabeth Jones
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 02 February 25 14:53 GMT (UK) »
We  can  follow Dorothy through Laura.

1851
Dorothy Peirce 37  Head married . pauper . husband is not at home
Owen Peirce 12 son
Ann Peirce 9
Laura Peirce 6   Daughter
Thomas Peirce 2 Son
Elinor Griffith 37 /87  Mother pauper b Abererch

1861
Dorothy Griffith 48 Head married  b  Llanystyndwy , husband not at home
Laura Griffith   16
Jane Griffith 8
Ellen Griffith 3

1871
William Pierce 58 Head B Abererch
Dorothy Pierce 59 Wife b Llanystumdwy
Anne Pierce 29 Daughter
Laura Pierce   26   Daughter
Mary Pierce 8 Granddaughter
Elizabeth Pierce 4 Granddaughter
Thomas Pierce 4 Grandson
***Evan Pierce 4 Grandson
Jane Pierce 1 Granddaughter
Ellin Pierce 14 Daughter

***Evan was the illegitimate child of Laura Pierce and Evan Thomas, baptised 14 February 1867

1881 Factory,  Llanystumdwy
William Pierce 69 Head
Dora Pierce 70 Wife
Laura Pierce 36   Daughter
Jane Pierce 11 Granddaughter
Ellen Jones 6 Granddaughter
Owen Griffith 3 Grandson

Dorothy Pierce 78 abode Factory was buried   8 October 1886 
William Pierce 77  abode  Sling ? was buried 17 May 1888 both  at  Llanystumdwy. Burial register.

1891 Criccieth
Laura Pierce 46   Head single pauper
Jane Pierce 21 Daughter
David Pierce 6 Son
William Pierce 7/12 Grandson

Is this our Laura .
1st September 1893 Carnavon Herald
PWLLHELI BOARD OF GUARDIANS. AUGUST 30TH.—Mr J. T. Jones, chairman. OUT-RELIEF. The Chairman advised that Laura Pierce, Criccieth, who wanted relief, should be removed into the house.—Mr John Jones pointed out that the in-door relief had increased X100 last year.-The Chairman remarked that it was necessary to give something to do to the officers in the house.—Mr J. T. Rees said that the woman was wholly disabled.—Mr Owen Evans asked where the woman was when the relieving officer called ? Mr R. T. Prichard said that she was in bed.—There was a majority in favour of granting out-relief to her.-

 A Laura Pierce died aged 49 , June qtr 1894 Pwllhelli. Her burial has not been found.
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Online wilcoxon

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Re: Marriage of Thomas Pierce and Elizabeth Jones
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 02 February 25 18:16 GMT (UK) »
Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)   Year    Church / Register Office   Registers At   Reference   Add to Summary
GRIFFITH *   Dorothy   PIERCE   William   1838   Criccieth, St Catherine   Gwynedd (Caernarfon)   DWYCRICCATH/1/E4   
GRIFFITH *   Dorothy   THOMAS   William   1838   Criccieth, St Catherine   Gwynedd (Caernarfon)   DWYCRICCATH/1/E4 

Did you click on the * to see what it meant.

Have you looked at the original image on the GRO index.

There is no marriage of a William Pierce in 1838. 🙄

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tmg/

Flippin eck. It's complicated.




Census information is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline dmerry

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Re: Marriage of Thomas Pierce and Elizabeth Jones
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 02 February 25 18:44 GMT (UK) »
Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)   Year    Church / Register Office   Registers At   Reference   Add to Summary
GRIFFITH *   Dorothy   PIERCE   William   1838   Criccieth, St Catherine   Gwynedd (Caernarfon)   DWYCRICCATH/1/E4   
GRIFFITH *   Dorothy   THOMAS   William   1838   Criccieth, St Catherine   Gwynedd (Caernarfon)   DWYCRICCATH/1/E4

Did you click on the * to see what it meant.

Have you looked at the original image on the GRO index.

There is no marriage of a William Pierce in 1838. 🙄

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tmg/

Flippin eck. It's complicated.

Hi Wilcoxon

Many thanks for the info - yes I am finding it complicated and a right challenge but determined not to give in. Having read the notes for the * on the website they list all the names that are on the certificate.  Normally this would only be two surnames the bride, groom and their fathers.  In this case  reading the notes you could make the assumption that William Thomas is the son of William Pierce because as you have rightly said, on the GRO there is only a marriage of William Thomas to Dorothy Griffith in that area.

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Marriage of Thomas Pierce and Elizabeth Jones
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 02 February 25 20:55 GMT (UK) »
I'm fairly sure William Thomas and William Pierce are one and the same - and Dorothy only married once.

As I said earlier, we could be in the land of patronymics, where a man uses his father's name as his surname rather than the "family name" - still in use in some areas in this period. Makes genealogy a bit of a challenge when they swop between the two

Or William might be illegitimate and use both his mother and birth or step father's surname

You might need sight of the actual marriage cert to get a better idea

Might be a coincidence but there's a Thomas Pierce and his wife Ann in Abererch in 1841 - old enough to be William's parents.

Offline dmerry

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Re: Marriage of Thomas Pierce and Elizabeth Jones
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 04 February 25 14:43 GMT (UK) »
I'm fairly sure William Thomas and William Pierce are one and the same - and Dorothy only married once.

As I said earlier, we could be in the land of patronymics, where a man uses his father's name as his surname rather than the "family name" - still in use in some areas in this period. Makes genealogy a bit of a challenge when they swop between the two

Or William might be illegitimate and use both his mother and birth or step father's surname

You might need sight of the actual marriage cert to get a better idea

Might be a coincidence but there's a Thomas Pierce and his wife Ann in Abererch in 1841 - old enough to be William's parents.

Thank you for your message.  The coincidence could well match up as I have managed to find the marriage certificate of William Thomas and Dorothy Griffith which lists him as William Thomas the son of Thomas Pierce and the occupation matches as a labourer.  Thank you.