Author Topic: Hannah Jane Smith help with parents please  (Read 280 times)

Offline weenie

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Re: Hannah Jane Smith help with parents please
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 04 February 25 10:20 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou for this much appriciated
Weenie
Names i am researching are: Riley, Peaker, Jones,Smith, Dobson, Ford, Humphries, Cross, Peckston, Power, Raby, Raper, Snipe Hulse, Whelan, Darling, Morton, Wild, Moss, Ibbotson, Grimes, Broadbelt, Jowett, Nicholson
Areas of interest: Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Kent, Westham, Northumberland, Lancashire, Pontefract,  Flintshire, Liverpool

Offline Tall Al

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Re: Hannah Jane Smith help with parents please
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 04 February 25 10:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Looking at the GRO records, these indicate that Hannah Jane Smith birth (Wrexham Sept Qtr 1876, Vol 11B, Page323) did not show a mothers maiden name. This normally tends to suggest an illegitimate birth.

I would contend that in the 1881 census, it is not unreasonable to presume it very likely to be the same person, now being looked after by Mary Dodd - possibly a sister or other relative of Jane Smith?

I have seen similar situations previously, with the position becoming clearer when the individual married and her birth fathers name appeared on the marriage certificate.

I would think her birth fathers surname was "Harper" but if you cannot find an actual marriage for Hannah, which could have information to help solve your dilemma, it could be difficult to establish precise details. 

Have you looked for male "Harper" in the area and discounted any of them?  There is a boarder James Harper in the same area Gresford age 35 in 1881 which might be of interest?

Its a bit of guesswork currently I'm afraid.

Alan

Offline weenie

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Re: Hannah Jane Smith help with parents please
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 04 February 25 10:26 GMT (UK) »
Yes i have the certificate i forgot to add to my 1st post. added on 2nd post.

the National school board on FindMyPast indicated Mary Dodd as relative. and same birth as birth cert.

thankyou Weenie
Names i am researching are: Riley, Peaker, Jones,Smith, Dobson, Ford, Humphries, Cross, Peckston, Power, Raby, Raper, Snipe Hulse, Whelan, Darling, Morton, Wild, Moss, Ibbotson, Grimes, Broadbelt, Jowett, Nicholson
Areas of interest: Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Kent, Westham, Northumberland, Lancashire, Pontefract,  Flintshire, Liverpool

Offline weenie

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Re: Hannah Jane Smith help with parents please
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 04 February 25 10:35 GMT (UK) »
If Robert married Mary Dodd, wouldnt she be known as Mary Smith in the census and maybe another mary dodd ?

Names i am researching are: Riley, Peaker, Jones,Smith, Dobson, Ford, Humphries, Cross, Peckston, Power, Raby, Raper, Snipe Hulse, Whelan, Darling, Morton, Wild, Moss, Ibbotson, Grimes, Broadbelt, Jowett, Nicholson
Areas of interest: Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Kent, Westham, Northumberland, Lancashire, Pontefract,  Flintshire, Liverpool


Offline Tall Al

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Re: Hannah Jane Smith help with parents please
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 04 February 25 10:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I think I may have found the marriage in 1905 -

George James and Ann Smith (assuming her name misheard as "Ann" instead of "Hannah")

Wrexham, June Qtr 1905, Vol 11B, Page 546.

Also on North Wales BMD showing as a civil marriage.

May be worth buying the certificate?

Alan

Online Cas (stallc)

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Re: Hannah Jane Smith help with parents please
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 04 February 25 13:24 GMT (UK) »
I think that the 1905 marriage is a very good possible.  Ann can be a shortened version of Hannah.

Jane is still alive in 1911, living as housekeeper to son in law David Brown born c1883 Wrexham. Family are in Lancashire. Also in house is grandson William Brown b1907 Wrexham. 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2352/records/19273991

Burial address is same as given for Hannah J James in 1911.

Jane Allen
Death Age   71
Record Type   Burial
Death Place   2 Villiers Street
Burial Date   8 Aug 1913
Burial Place   Wrexham, Wales
Burial Information   8576
Plot Number   04571
Cemetery   Wrexham cemetery

ALLEN, JANE       age 71 
GRO Reference: 1913  S Quarter in WREXHAM  Volume 11B  Page 323

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/133931551/jane-allen

1921 the Brown family are still in Lancs, Elizabeth is recorded as Bessie.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/63150/records/24073047

Cas
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Squire/Thomas/Williams/Bowen/Lewis/Davies/Jones/Rees/Morgan/Lloyd - Glamorgan
Lewis/Davies - Breckonshire
Davies/Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Thackwell/Thomas - Hereford/Monmouthshire
Shoemac/Squire/Keirle/Small - Somerset
Berry/Baggot/Lee/Clayton - Lancs
Yelland/Bray/Trethewey - Cornwall
Baggot/Hurley/Keaveny/Shiel/Flynn - Ireland

Online Cas (stallc)

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Re: Hannah Jane Smith help with parents please
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 04 February 25 15:15 GMT (UK) »
From info from baptism, I think the marriage of Hannah Price to Robert Smith on 30 Dec 1839 Wrexham are possibly correct parents for Jane. (Marriage image online)

Likely death of Hannah, death cert would confirm
Name   Hannah Smith
Death Age   26
Record Type   Burial
Birth Date   1819
Death Date   abt 1845
Burial Date   6 Mar 1845
Burial Place   Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
Page number   59

Robert then marries spinster Mary Dodd in 1846 (image online) who names her father as William Dodd.  I believe Thomas Dodd (father William) who married Mary Roberts (image online) was brother to Mary Dodd the 2nd wife of Robert Smith. Which would make him uncle by marriage to Jane Smith

Thomas & Mary Dodd were likely childless so likely the Dodd family took Hannah Jane, as in 1881/1891 census and helped raise her.

Unfortunately 1841 for area seems sparse or missing?. The 1851 for Dodd family born Moss is there.

There may also be a sister for Jane, that is working as a servant in 1851. (With possible Aunt nee Price)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8861/records/16107841

Name   Eliza Smith
Baptism Age   0
Record Type   Baptism
Birth Date   1840
Baptism Date   27 Nov 1840
Baptism Place   Brymbo, Denbighshire, Wales (image is Broughton)
Father   Robert Smith
Mother   Hannah Smith
Page number   15

Just my thoughts

Cas
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Squire/Thomas/Williams/Bowen/Lewis/Davies/Jones/Rees/Morgan/Lloyd - Glamorgan
Lewis/Davies - Breckonshire
Davies/Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Thackwell/Thomas - Hereford/Monmouthshire
Shoemac/Squire/Keirle/Small - Somerset
Berry/Baggot/Lee/Clayton - Lancs
Yelland/Bray/Trethewey - Cornwall
Baggot/Hurley/Keaveny/Shiel/Flynn - Ireland

Offline weenie

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Re: Hannah Jane Smith help with parents please
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 04 February 25 17:18 GMT (UK) »
Wow.  I had to nip out after i posted and finally get back to all this. you are all fantastic.

this is great many many thanks all of you !  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

much appriciated
weenie
Names i am researching are: Riley, Peaker, Jones,Smith, Dobson, Ford, Humphries, Cross, Peckston, Power, Raby, Raper, Snipe Hulse, Whelan, Darling, Morton, Wild, Moss, Ibbotson, Grimes, Broadbelt, Jowett, Nicholson
Areas of interest: Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Kent, Westham, Northumberland, Lancashire, Pontefract,  Flintshire, Liverpool

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Hannah Jane Smith help with parents please
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 04 February 25 22:38 GMT (UK) »

Thomas & Mary Dodd were likely childless so likely the Dodd family took Hannah Jane, as in 1881/1891 census and helped raise her.


If he's the Thomas who died in December 1880 in a colliery accident, the newspaper reporting, which identifies him as being of Summerhill, is varied as to whether he was childless or had one child. There's a few Dodd children with mmn Roberts born in the Wrexham area in the 1860s and 70s [added: but some of these can be found on 1871 with different parents]